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Game Thread | 2021-22 Season | Game #4 | Cavs @ Nuggets | Oct. 25, 2021

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bob2the2nd said:
So I pretty much have pretended the Cavs don't exist since... 17. I was traveling across country today and the only entertainment I had was this thread.

Holy shit!! This thread alone was enough to drag me back in. I don't give a flying fuck about garland or sexton but the rest of this thread has me seriously considering finding a way to regularly watch this team
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You should do it for Mobley alone, but yeah it is more fun to watch. They are going to be more competitive I am sure.
 
What the fuck did i just watch.....there were 8 people that contributed to that victory. Great team victory, Kevin Love looked 26 again, Allen looked under paid for a game, the defense of Mobley and Okoro was incredible. Markadden came to life, Sexton, Garland both chipped in Sexton from deep and timely scoring, Galrand with good ball handling, and Rubio controlled the tempo and got in Denver's ead.....crazy game.
 
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bob2the2nd said:
So I pretty much have pretended the Cavs don't exist since... 17. I was traveling across country today and the only entertainment I had was this thread.

Holy shit!! This thread alone was enough to drag me back in. I don't give a flying fuck about garland or sexton but the rest of this thread has me seriously considering finding a way to regularly watch this team
Click to expand...
I have been on and off with the team because the lack of streaming options (fucking sinclair). Honestly thinking about switching back to cable again to watch this team
 
Damn. Great win. Really like Allen. Notice people giving him shit a lot.
 
The Human Q-Tip said:
The most telling stat for Garland this season is that he hasn't shot a single free throw. I'm not ragging on him - just pointing out that what is preventing him from excelling offensively is a lack of aggressiveness. Pounding the ball, overdribbling, etc., are just symptoms.

He just has to go inside more than he does.
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There's no room inside. For two years we've watched our backcourt dribble into an overcrowded paint. I'm good. If anything, Garland should've gotten two more three point shots up (he was 1 for 3).

Lauri was 2 for 8 from 3 (4 for 12 overall). Rubio was 0 for 3 from 3 (and only 2 for 10 overall). From 3, the Cavs were 7 of 25, which is sub optimal to say the least.
 
daddywags said:
Great game, although Bally Sports kinda sucked. I think both Sexton and Garland are having to learn how to fit their games in with a team that (for once) isn't relying on them to carry the offensive load. As long as Love is playing the way he has been (may it be a long time) our bigs - Allen, Mobley, Love, and Markkanen - are the focal point of the team and they should give most teams fits.
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Is Bally any good? I am looking at ways to stream the games, but, have come up short. Do you get to watch all the Cavs games live? Is it just an app on your phone or can you watch on Amazon Prime? I'm not familiar with it. Thanks.
 
daddywags said:
Great game, although Bally Sports kinda sucked. I think both Sexton and Garland are having to learn how to fit their games in with a team that (for once) isn't relying on them to carry the offensive load. As long as Love is playing the way he has been (may it be a long time) our bigs - Allen, Mobley, Love, and Markkanen - are the focal point of the team and they should give most teams fits.
Click to expand...
This..

We have beaten two playoff contenders with excellent defense using a line up the includes a 20 year old rookie , an aging vet who could not stay on the court last year, and a rehabbing 7 footer, playing out of position..

This is an entirely different team than last year.. Drummond was a selfish ball hog, playing with twin ball hog guards.. It sort of worked until Drummond realized he was not getting a max contract out of it.. Then he went into little bitch mode..

And Sexland continued to ignore the other players on the team..

What I see this year is Sexland getting the message.. play team ball or else.. And they are struggling to adapt.. Rubio is showing them both up because he is using his assets well. Allen isn't shooting 90% by taking guys off the dribble. He is shooting 90% because he is getting the ball in the right spot at the right time.. The point being made to Sexland is that an Open Jarret Allen is going to score more reliably than either of the guards putting up floaters in the lane in traffic..

I personally think I see evidence that Sexton has gotten the message. He is taking fewer shots, but still being efficient and scoring. His three triples last night are more of what we need than him bull rushing a crowded rim..He knows he is the most skilled player on the team, and so he prefers to rely on himself, but if he wants the big contract he needs to think of the other players as extensions of himself..

Darius made some bone head moves, no doubt.. But he can make those successful assists. I think he has not matured enough to see three moves ahead and avoid the awkward positions.. Rubio, with his 15 years, has that shit down. And for some reason, he is all in with the Cavs, bringing it at a pace the league has not seen from him before.. Long term, we want Garland to learn what Rubio already knows, and I still believe that once he learns, he will be better than Rubio.. As many have pointed out, he is young, and has not played that many games since high school.. He improved massively last year in terms of efficiency, and he has improved his conditioning in this off season, so I expect another jump..

And my last comment is about Mark.. I absolutely loved his steal, and coast to coast nutbagging of Jokic.. And most telling was that after what he had to know was a highlight reel play, he is hustling back on defense, all business..

That three starts to drop at his normal percentage, and opponents will be living a nightmare when the 3 seven footers are doing their thing..
 
Let's look at the big picture. The Cavs won by 12 after losing by 38 in Denver last year - a 50-point swing. That happened despite playing their third game in four nights. The key was they didn't fold after Denver tied the score at 70. From Fedor's game column:

At one point late in the third quarter, it looked like they were beginning to teeter, that the inevitable Nuggets comeback was about to occur, but these Cavs look -- and feel -- different.

“We had a few moments where the intensity got picked up, and we didn’t back down at all,” Cavs coach J.B. Bickerstaff said. “Matter of fact, we kept stepping forward..."

“I’ll be honest, last year we probably would have crumbled in that situation,” Jarrett Allen said. “We would have had the crowd going at us, they would have went on another run. But tonight we held our composure. We fed off the energy. Huge shout out to the bench. You saw people running on the baselines, just hyping us up, but we just, we didn’t let it speed up our game and we closed it out.”

Same as the win over the Hawks when it came down to the final four minutes with the Cavs up by three but the Hawks had momentum. Last year they would have found a way to lose.

Bickerstaff has two musts: Be the most competitive and selfless team every night. Challenge accepted. Led by Allen, who battled with reigning MVP Nikola Jokic, the Cavs fought throughout. They won the rebounding battle, repeatedly dove for loose balls and suffocated the Nuggets at the defensive end, forcing 22 turnovers. They played a fun, team-oriented style on offense that leads to hope of a brighter future -- and, perhaps, even present.

In two straight games, the Cavs have entered the fourth quarter with a lead. They’ve closed both. They’re still learning. But the signs are there. It’s starting to come. Maybe quicker than anyone expected.

I might add that those two wins were against an EC finalist and a WC semi-finalist last year.

Denver was missing Jalen Murray, which was a big loss. His replacement had 2 points and 6 assists. With Murray they might have won this game. So keep it in perspective. But the resiliency and competitiveness in the 4th quarter against quality opponents is a great sign.

Now let's get back to discussing who dribbles too much.
 
CavsKermit said:
There's no room inside.
Click to expand...

So far this season, Sexton has made 17 FGA at the rim. He's made 13 of them, so there clearly has been room at the rim.

In contrast, Garland has attempted just 2.

Again, I'm not trying to pick on Garland. I am actually trying to get away from the unfocused condemnation and negative remarks that infested this thread, and pointing to a very specific issue that can be both objectively measured, and is fixable.

When I watch Garland, I see a guy who is a very good passer, but who sometimes is caught on the perimeter just looking for passing opportunities rather than creating them by putting pressure on the defense with penetration. I think that's why he sometimes looks like he is pounding the ball or just wasting time dribbling on the perimeter. He's waiting for those opportunities rather than creating them.
 
CleveRocks said:
This..

We have beaten two playoff contenders with excellent defense using a line up the includes a 20 year old rookie , an aging vet who could not stay on the court last year, and a rehabbing 7 footer, playing out of position..

This is an entirely different team than last year.. Drummond was a selfish ball hog, playing with twin ball hog guards.. It sort of worked until Drummond realized he was not getting a max contract out of it.. Then he went into little bitch mode..

And Sexland continued to ignore the other players on the team..

What I see this year is Sexland getting the message.. play team ball or else.. And they are struggling to adapt.. Rubio is showing them both up because he is using his assets well. Allen isn't shooting 90% by taking guys off the dribble. He is shooting 90% because he is getting the ball in the right spot at the right time.. The point being made to Sexland is that an Open Jarret Allen is going to score more reliably than either of the guards putting up floaters in the lane in traffic..

I personally think I see evidence that Sexton has gotten the message. He is taking fewer shots, but still being efficient and scoring. His three triples last night are more of what we need than him bull rushing a crowded rim..He knows he is the most skilled player on the team, and so he prefers to rely on himself, but if he wants the big contract he needs to think of the other players as extensions of himself..

Darius made some bone head moves, no doubt.. But he can make those successful assists. I think he has not matured enough to see three moves ahead and avoid the awkward positions.. Rubio, with his 15 years, has that shit down. And for some reason, he is all in with the Cavs, bringing it at a pace the league has not seen from him before.. Long term, we want Garland to learn what Rubio already knows, and I still believe that once he learns, he will be better than Rubio.. As many have pointed out, he is young, and has not played that many games since high school.. He improved massively last year in terms of efficiency, and he has improved his conditioning in this off season, so I expect another jump..

And my last comment is about Mark.. I absolutely loved his steal, and coast to coast nutbagging of Jokic.. And most telling was that after what he had to know was a highlight reel play, he is hustling back on defense, all business..

That three starts to drop at his normal percentage, and opponents will be living a nightmare when the 3 seven footers are doing their thing..
Click to expand...
one thing with this time last year to this time this year... we added pretty much 4 other scoring options in Allen, Mobley, Rubio and for all intents and purposes Kevin Love

Sexton does not have to do all of the scoring. And he has adjusted his game. Sexton needs to be considered a core part of this franchise.
Okoro as well for his defense alone, His offense will get refined and more efficient. And of course Allen and Mobley.

We are a good wing away from being a solid playoff contender at worst

Garland is still a work in process
 
Wham with the Right Hand said:
Let's look at the big picture. The Cavs won by 12 after losing by 38 in Denver last year - a 50-point swing. That happened despite playing their third game in four nights. The key was they didn't fold after Denver tied the score at 70. From Fedor's game column:

At one point late in the third quarter, it looked like they were beginning to teeter, that the inevitable Nuggets comeback was about to occur, but these Cavs look -- and feel -- different.

“We had a few moments where the intensity got picked up, and we didn’t back down at all,” Cavs coach J.B. Bickerstaff said. “Matter of fact, we kept stepping forward..."

“I’ll be honest, last year we probably would have crumbled in that situation,” Jarrett Allen said. “We would have had the crowd going at us, they would have went on another run. But tonight we held our composure. We fed off the energy. Huge shout out to the bench. You saw people running on the baselines, just hyping us up, but we just, we didn’t let it speed up our game and we closed it out.”

Same as the win over the Hawks when it came down to the final four minutes with the Cavs up by three but the Hawks had momentum. Last year they would have found a way to lose.

Bickerstaff has two musts: Be the most competitive and selfless team every night. Challenge accepted. Led by Allen, who battled with reigning MVP Nikola Jokic, the Cavs fought throughout. They won the rebounding battle, repeatedly dove for loose balls and suffocated the Nuggets at the defensive end, forcing 22 turnovers. They played a fun, team-oriented style on offense that leads to hope of a brighter future -- and, perhaps, even present.

In two straight games, the Cavs have entered the fourth quarter with a lead. They’ve closed both. They’re still learning. But the signs are there. It’s starting to come. Maybe quicker than anyone expected.

I might add that those two wins were against an EC finalist and a WC semi-finalist last year.

Denver was missing Jalen Murray, which was a big loss. His replacement had 2 points and 6 assists. With Murray they might have won this game. So keep it in perspective. But the resiliency and competitiveness in the 4th quarter against quality opponents is a great sign.

Now let's get back to discussing who dribbles too much.
Click to expand...
You know what the difference is this year vs last year:

1) DEFENSE- our length & activity is bothering teams
2) mental toughness & growth of young players (see Allen, Sexton, Okoro)
3) playing together (less 'hero ball')
4) contributions from vets, without overly relying on them (see Love & Rubio)

I really like the way this team is playing. With what I've seen of them the last two games, they can truly compete against and beat anyone. I see no reason they can't contend for and make the playoffs.
 
DirtyDan said:
I have been on and off with the team because the lack of streaming options (fucking sinclair). Honestly thinking about switching back to cable again to watch this team
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The buffering issues is the only reason I stay with cable’s high prices! ;(
 
avs2000 said:
one thing with this time last year to this time this year... we added pretty much 4 other scoring options in Allen, Mobley, Rubio and for all intents and purposes Kevin Love

Sexton does not have to do all of the scoring. And he has adjusted his game. Sexton needs to be considered a core part of this franchise.
Okoro as well for his defense alone, His offense will get refined and more efficient. And of course Allen and Mobley.

We are a good wing away from being a solid playoff contender at worst

Garland is still a work in process
Click to expand...
I haven’t seen it yet (maybe he has it) but Garland is going to have to develop a floater in the lane. He gets into the key almost effortlessly but all of a sudden looks for a way back out! He’s got to be more aggressive once he gets in there.
 
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