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Cleveland Guardians Offseason Discussion 2021-22

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KluberSociety said:
I'm not impressed with Miller's glove to the point where I think of him as a MIF solution. Maybe at 2B but more of a fill-in similar to the Chang role last year. I don't think he's terrible with the glove, no, but when we have so many other options, a scenario where we're seeing Miller as an everyday 2B is one where the others have failed. Unless somehow his bat develops to the point where we actually want to get it in the lineup. Now I just don't see that being a likely case.

To describe what I see as lacking in his glove, it's a sort of agility, similar to watching someone like Jhonny out there. However Jhonny had a solid glove (he fielded the ball well) as well as a strong arm, so he compensated for it. I don't see Miller having surplus skills in these areas to compensate for it.
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Miller has a fine 2B glove. He is no SS or 3B IMO. If he migrates closer to his minor league numbers then he's a keeper. In 3 minor league seasons and 1096 AB he slashed 305/368/450/818. The kid is a hitter and his initial struggle doesn't mean he won't right the ship. He just turned 25 and some consistent AB would be ideal for him. I have in no way lost faith in his abilities........yet.
 
Criznit said:
In a vacuum, you are correct. However, this latest "outrage" started out with a comment regarding a lack of quality options at Catcher remaining in free agency specifically (at least for me). How the Guardians address/deal with this is (adding a catcher) is a legitimate talking point.
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I mean, it’s absolutely early in the off season. With the labor situation severely impacting things, really hard to predict how the roster looks come March.

While it’s too early to “complain” in earnest, it’s also fair to point out the Indians haven’t really earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to addressing obvious team needs in the off season. The OF has been an issue for a long time and they haven’t been able to adequately fix it. Would it really shock anyone if we see either Zimmer or Mercado in the opening lineup next year? Similarly, it wouldn’t be out of character for Leon to start the season as Hedge’s back up, either. We’ve seen moves like this before. Sometimes the shit fans complain about in November becomes reality in April.

I think there’s a good balance to strike in the off season. It’s not an either or strategy. I have no issue with the club being patient and letting things develop. As long as they’re not passing on guys they like (say Alfaro) simply because they want to wait. Sometimes value opportunities present themselves late in the off season. But waiting can also lead to nonsense like L. Martin batting lead off and Hanley Ramirez as an everyday player when the games count. There are certainly advantages to addressing some needs early.

This FO has shown urgency in making deals early when it comes to shedding payroll. It’s not against the rules to show similar aggression in targeting players they like as potential upgrades either. Until such a move(s) happens, I get the skepticism. That said, I am optimistic they make a move or two to address needs on the MLB roster. The timing just makes too much sense.
 
Andrew Scheid said:
Amen, dude.

I've seen many Cleveland baseball bloggers shriek about the "fiscal irresponsibility" of giving $13 million to an above-average hitting catcher who is fantastic with a pitching staff. The alternative is an Austin Hedges/Sandy Leon pairing, which produced a 40 WRC+ and 42 WRC+ respectively.

If the organization is planning on just adding a fringe FA OF to the roster (Joc Pederson type), then what is the point of keeping JRam, especially if they won't extend him? It would make more sense then to trade him for a haul of blue-chip prospects whose timelines match up with Rocchio, Valera and Freeman.
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I actually overstated the team's present payroll. It sits at 29.2 million. Small market or not, that falls 100% in the WTF column, especially given the fact that Cincinnati's p/r is at 105 million...or Detroit which sits at 101 million.

Unless the lack of spending habits drastically change, I don;t want to hear the shit that this team will contend next year. No they won't. Starting pitching looks very good, the closer is excellent. the third baseman is a perrenial MVP candidate and the rest of the the team is garbage.
 
thestatman said:
I actually overstated the team's present payroll. It sits at 29.2 million. Small market or not, that falls 100% in the WTF column, especially given the fact that Cincinnati's p/r is at 105 million...or Detroit which sits at 101 million.

Unless the lack of spending habits drastically change, I don;t want to hear the shit that this team will contend next year. No they won't. Starting pitching looks very good, the closer is excellent. the third baseman is a perrenial MVP candidate and the rest of the the team is garbage.
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Disagrees with all this.. (except for the SP and 3B comment)
 
Don't mind people complaining about payroll, as I have some too. But, let's use est arbritration numbers as $29.2 assumes we dump Reyes and Bieber. Most sites project us around $49-$51 million after arbitration without other additions. Note, this is far cry from $70-$80 range most want, projected w FA signings. With catching FA gone and some realistic OF in our range signed, we maybe around $60 if we sign a Rosario type again after CBA is finalized.

Only way I see us competing with that is hoping for expanded playoffs where pitching keeps us in races till we get a few additional bats in lineup like Arias, Freeman, Jones, Valera for actual playoffs.
 
petes999 said:
Don't mind people complaining about payroll, as I have some too. But, let's use est arbritration numbers as $29.2 assumes we dump Reyes and Bieber. Most sites project us around $49-$51 million after arbitration without other additions. Note, this is far cry from $70-$80 range most want, projected w FA signings. With catching FA gone and some realistic OF in our range signed, we maybe around $60 if we sign a Rosario type again after CBA is finalized.

Only way I see us competing with that is hoping for expanded playoffs where pitching keeps us in races till we get a few additional bats in lineup like Arias, Freeman, Jones, Valera for actual playoffs.
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Agree with this... exploiting the most important asset of the club (starting pitching/back of the bullpen), defense and enough offense, even if it's from the younger kids.. is the path to winning it all.. The margins are less & more difficult to reconnoiter... but doable.. especially with significant talent..
 
Gson said:
Perhaps the best trading partner to acquire a catcher might be the St Louis Cardinals.. There are several points that make sense for this:

1. Yadier Molina on a one year $ 10 MM contract as the primary catcher & Andrew Knizner as his back up
2. The Cardinals have both corner infield spots filled, including Nolan Arenado at 3B.. making JRam unneeded
3. The Cardinals are in perpetual need for a slick fielding middle infielder who can hit now and into the future
4. The Cardinals biggest need is pitching.. both relievers and starters..

The Cardinals have a pair of pre-arbitration OF'er's in Lars Nootbaar OF, Tommy Edman Inf/RF & some firepower in Nolan Gorman 3B/2B/LF & a future everyday starting catcher in Ivan Herrera. There are plenty of complimentary pieces (genesis cabrera, harrison bader, alex reyes, others) that would fit nicely into a Guardians uniform..

For the Guardians.. the Cardinals would want Bieber.. but settle for Plesac: a bona fide MOR SP.. Additionally, Andres Gimenez would fit nicely there.. so would Tyler Freeman, Logan S Allen, Bracho, Jose Tena and others. There could be a small deal or a large/involved deal between the two clubs.. or even a third team given the depth of middle infielders the Guardians have that would interest these clubs..

example..

Cincinnati gets: Andres Gimenez and Matt Liberatore
St Louis gets: Tyler Mahle, Tanner Burns and Zach Plesac
Cleveland gets: Nick Senzel, Michael McGreevy, Ivan Herrera and Josh Baez

While there are endless permutations that can be imagined (and that's all this is at this point, an imaginary deal).. the idea that a catcher that is ready to compete for a spot in a major league lineup right now can be had..for the right deal. Ivan Herrera is at that level. In this example.. the Reds solve their SS problem and get another TOR SP (to go with Lodolo and Greene) for their 2023-25 window of contention. The Cardinals pitching staff gets two SP's with 2 and 4 years of control, respectively, and a future SP by trading first round picks with the Guardians. The Guardians get their catcher.. get Shane Bieber's alumnus-mate & get two OF'ers (both RHH's), one now and one in the future...

-No JRam..
-No prospects that are leaning toward being untouchable

Who says no? What say you?
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Ask again in three months when transactions will actually again be possible.
 
thestatman said:
Not making a play for Yan Gomes is very disappointing. Gaurdins couldn't afford 13 million over 2 years?

The complete inactivity so far is mind boggling especially given the publicity nightmare they will be dealing with with the name change. Not to mention the high likelyhood of a delayed start to this season. Arbitration will increase the payroll somewhat but right now, the payroll sits at a paltry 31 million. There's no reason for that.
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Alabuckeye said:
Do we know they DIDN'T make a play for Yan?
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I can almost 100% guarentee we made a pitch for Gomes, the problem is the Cubs gave him a third option year... I doubt the money was the issue, it was more the years.
 
rmacd said:
Agree on Millers glove work. Might be wrong but believe that is why he was rarely played on the left side of the infield.
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Yeah, Chang would play SS with Miller at 2B or 1B, and Chang's no gold glover himself.
 
KluberSociety said:
Yeah, Chang would play SS with Miller at 2B or 1B, and Chang's no gold glover himself.
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Chang actually isn't all that bad at SS (he's better than Amed there) we just got used to always having a legit SS for many years. Miller lacks the arm you expect at SS plus he played on the right side more because of need that anything else. He can play anywhere but 2B is his best position then also we havent needed innings at 3B...
 
BMAN said:
We literally lost our top 3 starters. No one survives that.
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The Cardinals lost Jack Flaherty, Carlos Martinez, Dakota Hudson, Kwang Hyun-Kim, Jordan Hicks, Daniel Ponce de Leon, Andrew Miller, and Miles Mikolas for months due to injury, yet they still made the postseason.
 
Andrew Scheid said:
The Cardinals lost Jack Flaherty, Carlos Martinez, Dakota Hudson, Kwang Hyun-Kim, Jordan Hicks, Daniel Ponce de Leon, Andrew Miller, and Miles Mikolas for months due to injury, yet they still made the postseason.
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A lot of those guys stink though
 
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