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Early 22 GM Thread! (Trade Ideas here)
- Thread starter sportscoach
- Start date
The catching situation is dire, because we only have one, and he can't be counted on to play more than 80 games.
The offensive production from the catchers would not be a major concern if we had offensive production we could count on from our corner OFs and 1B. That can be fixed by acquiring quality bats for two of those three positions, although three would be better.
You can't look at our offensive output for the entire 2022 season. To get a more accurate starting point you have to look at the offense after the deadline, when Straw and Reyes were both playing. Overall the offense was top ten in MLB, without much help from either corner OF spots.
If those two positions are upgraded, we can carry defense first catchers, which is far better than defense first corner players.
The offensive production from the catchers would not be a major concern if we had offensive production we could count on from our corner OFs and 1B. That can be fixed by acquiring quality bats for two of those three positions, although three would be better.
You can't look at our offensive output for the entire 2022 season. To get a more accurate starting point you have to look at the offense after the deadline, when Straw and Reyes were both playing. Overall the offense was top ten in MLB, without much help from either corner OF spots.
If those two positions are upgraded, we can carry defense first catchers, which is far better than defense first corner players.
CDAV45
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Myles straw is an average offensive player. If you take into account his entire season then he was below average. He was below average in every season prior to it minus his 9 AB in 2018. This isn't to beat up Myles Straw because I like him as a player, I just don't want too many of him on my team. He can get on base while providing speed and defense. I wasn't joking yesterday when I mentioned Kwan could end up being the better, more well rounded CFer. He's not yet of course, but the kid looks like he can hit and plays above average defense.
Agree that defense first catchers are much more desirable than defensive first corner OFers, but everybody needs to contribute positively to some degree.
3 guys that could make a big difference with no additions is Gimenez, Miller, and Bradley. These are capable hitters that didn't do much last season. Gimenez and Miller were better in their 2nd go around, but we need them to be consistent. Can Valaika make a difference or has he been given a turd and asked to polish it? This lockout is bad timing for the Guardians in that sense.
Don't tell us we're going into the season with Hedges/Leon. I'd rather accept a re-run of Zimmer/Mercado than that.
If this means they decided to hold onto most of their prospects going into the season, I'm ok with that, but at least give me a Pham/J. Pederson in FA and a small trade for a Blue Jays catcher. Not even that?
Gson
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There are at least two (not the only two) young defensively competent catchers who could be considered for a deal:
Atlanta's Shea Langeliers.. I'm not sure what it would take to get Langeliers from the Braves at this point.. Truth be told.. their current starters/back ups might be a better target.. but, I D K...
San Diego's Luis Campusano.. San Diego's biggest need is a back of the pen closer/high leverage relief pitching.. This one might hurt, but, the Guardians may be able to cobble together a package that includes Nick Sandlin or James Karinchak as the headliner for a return that includes Luis Campusano.. A one for one of Zach Plesac for Luis Campusano is "fair" according to the BTV site thereby allowing Padres to move one of Morejon/Gore/Wilson/Lawson/Kerr to take on a role out of the pen.. Ray Kerr would be a nice get for the Guardians, btw..
any other insights?
BimboColesHair
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Where did I say that?
I was talking about the lengthy break in action the lockout is going to cause and the discussion that will surely be forced to happen because of it.
Straw was a 3.7 fWAR player last season.
Over 600 PAs he averages 3 fWAR.
Please, baseball gods, give me eight 3 WAR position players to go with JRam. With our pitching, we would run away with the division.
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Plesac is not gonna be traded for prospects...period.
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The BTV is a fantasy site that fans use to persuade themselves that a preconceived idea is 'fair'.
This is a fair trade per BTV...
Espino
Valera
Williams
Palacios
For
Marte
Carson Kelly
Anybody in for that fair trade?
Or how about...
Williams
Allen, jr
Palacios
For...
Ian Happ?
Or...
Espino
Allen, jr
For...
McNeil
J D Davis?
Over 600 PAs he averages 3 fWAR.
Please, baseball gods, give me eight 3 WAR position players to go with JRam. With our pitching, we would run away with the division.
************
Plesac is not gonna be traded for prospects...period.
*********
The BTV is a fantasy site that fans use to persuade themselves that a preconceived idea is 'fair'.
This is a fair trade per BTV...
Espino
Valera
Williams
Palacios
For
Marte
Carson Kelly
Anybody in for that fair trade?
Or how about...
Williams
Allen, jr
Palacios
For...
Ian Happ?
Or...
Espino
Allen, jr
For...
McNeil
J D Davis?
CDAV45
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You want 3 WAR players or 3 fWAR players? Myles Straw accumulated 1.8 WAR in 2021. If you have a team full of Myles Straws then you're gonna fucking lose, and lose a lot. Let's do our best to keep things realistic here. He finds it very difficult to obtain an OPS of .700. His game is OBP, speed and defense, although the defensive metrics didn't like him as much as most of us do. For the record, I have absolutely 0 faith in defensive metrics. He can get on base(career .343 OBP) and swipe a bag. In about a year and a quarter worth of AB he's swiped 46 bases while being caught 9 times. I'll take that. He's not a run producer by any stretch of the imagination and unless the guys on base for him are lightning bolts then he isn't going to drive many runs in. He's a guy you want to be on base and driven in. Myles Straw isn't our problem here, but he sure as hell isn't the solution. I find it absolutely silly when folks try to pigeon hole baseball players.
If Plesac is traded it will be for some immediate need and depending on that return possibly a prospect as well. Pretty much like all the other SP trades these guys have made. Actually there may be a difference in the fact that they could send a good prospect or 2 along with Plesac to sweeten the pot.
The BTV site is like any other site. It's for fans to exchange ideas and discuss them. While most of it is borderline lunacy there are some very good proposals mixed in there as well. I find myself inquiring about other teams' players/prospects in more detail since joining.
If Plesac is traded it will be for some immediate need and depending on that return possibly a prospect as well. Pretty much like all the other SP trades these guys have made. Actually there may be a difference in the fact that they could send a good prospect or 2 along with Plesac to sweeten the pot.
The BTV site is like any other site. It's for fans to exchange ideas and discuss them. While most of it is borderline lunacy there are some very good proposals mixed in there as well. I find myself inquiring about other teams' players/prospects in more detail since joining.
sportscoach
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@CDAV45 The Rays went and spent a fair amount of money keeping a CF with an average bat for a lot of years... Also fangraphs had Straw's season war at 3.7 and baseball reference had it at 3.2 so how did you get a 1.8?
Either way Straw is our starting CF... no one has the talent to dethrone him from the position and I think he will get better in 22 since you also have to factor is, he wasn't the main guy in Houston at all, most of the time playing partial games... The FO didn't go and get him just to switch him to the backburner. His OPS was above .700 in Cleveland (.739) and his BB% was up as well.
So in my opinion, you are way off on Straw...
Now when it comes to Plesac... at the current moment we have to get a MLB bat back for Plesac, so we aren't trading him just for prospects...
Either way Straw is our starting CF... no one has the talent to dethrone him from the position and I think he will get better in 22 since you also have to factor is, he wasn't the main guy in Houston at all, most of the time playing partial games... The FO didn't go and get him just to switch him to the backburner. His OPS was above .700 in Cleveland (.739) and his BB% was up as well.
So in my opinion, you are way off on Straw...
Now when it comes to Plesac... at the current moment we have to get a MLB bat back for Plesac, so we aren't trading him just for prospects...
Gson
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@sportscoach You're absolutely right about Straw...
Also, a ML bat is clearly needed.. whether that be as a FA signing (not much there.. the cupboard is bare) or more likely, a trade. There are lots and lots of candidates for an OF bat.. very few for catching..
There has been some discussion about trading for Willson Contreras & Ian Happ. Contreras is a one year expensive rental and would clearly help the catching situation. The dearth of quality backstops available this off season doesn't help this extremely dire situation. Trading away Bebo and his $ 7 MM salary is looking more and more foolish, imho. Paying for Contreras (his salary projected in ARB III @ $ 9 MM ) plus adding Ian Happ (another 6 to 7 MM in ARB II) has been suggested as a solution to this problem. Simply stated, that idea needs to be ended.. Ian Happ had an fWAR of 1.3 in 465 AB's.. If you project Happ's 465 AB's out to 1000 - 1200, his fWAR goes up to around Straw's.. (sounds like someone the Guardians FO should absolutely trade top prospects for...smh) This would be a HARD PASS
Straw is a keeper.. he plays above average defense in CF.. He may be better in LF if a Brad Zimmer-like defender is brought in.. oh wait.. we have Brad Zimmer, who, in 299 AB's posted 1.1 fWAR.... btw.. if a projection to 465 AB's for Zimmer is made, he'd have a 1.7 fWAR while playing vastly superior defense in any one of the three spots in the outfield..
If a name like Plesac is involved then a combination of an OF'er, ML ready catcher and/or prospect should be doable.. In other words: YES THE GUARDIANS WILL BE RECEIVING PROSPECT(s) for Plesac.. (sic)
Luis Campusano, a major league "ready" catcher with the Padres, could fulfill the need at catcher while Wil Myers and Ca$h (about 1/2 of his 2022 contracted salary would be nice..) could tag along while filling the RF spot and 1B against tough LHP's (Myers has about the same number of ML starts at 1B that he does in RF)..
Riley Adams, a major league "ready" catcher with the Blue Jays, could fulfill the need at catcher while Lourdes Gurriel Jr tags along to fill the LF spot.
There are certainly better OF candidates to keep or trade for than Brad Zimmer / Ian Happ.. but not many catchers.. these two examples make some sense.. Thoughts?..
sportscoach
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Riley Adams isn't in Toronto anymore... He was dealt to Washington last season... Adams also isn't any higher rated as a prospect than Sanchez which everyone here seemed to dislike 100%...
Hence why I said a deal for Yepez and Sanchez at least on paper sounds like a smart one to do since it adds a defensive ready catcher and a potential RH power bat to the organization.
I almost feel like we are going to make a trade for an veteran/MLB OF, make a couple 40 man spots then acquire a catcher. I feel like two moves are necessary at the moment. Even if we get Contreras and Happ, I'd still like to do the Tucker for Sanchez + Yepez type of deal. If we run out of contention we can swap the two veterans for whatever they are worth and let the young guys play after that.
I don't think at the current moment our issues are going to be fixed in one move unless it's a three team trade...
Gson
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We'll disagree on Happ/Contreras..
Riley Adams / Lane Thomas might make sense..with a fall back to Robles.. who could be worth a gamble..
CDAV45
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I looked at it wrong. Regardless, I never said he wasn't our CF. In fact, I said that I liked him and that he wasn't the problem, but he isn't the solution either. You can place your bet on a small sample that was the 2nd half for Straw and ignore the first half and the years before it if you wish. I'm going to stay between the lines and tell you again that Myles Straw will not solve our offensive woes. An entire team filled with Myles Straws would lose and lose a lot. How in the hell did you decipher what I said into your remarks? If anybody is way off on here it's you. I also stated that his value comes from getting on base and using his legs. Just reread the post if you're this confused.
No shit we have to get a bat back for Plesac, and you're twisting my words to sound like I'm advocating trading Plesac for some low level minor leaguers or something. Stop doing it. If you don't know then ask me. I don't have a problem clarifying what I've said. If they can get a big bat that's ready for an opportunity and meets their criteria, then you bet your sweet ass they'll deal him, but it won't be for prospects that aren't ready to contribute.
If I'm misunderstanding what you said then I apologize upfront. It seems like your chastising me after disregarding what I said.
sportscoach
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You are twisting my words as well
You did kind of sound like Straw is replaceable rather than a main piece, but you also are one that refuses to put anyone outside of a certain profile in the corners so if Kwan and Palacios both do well, you are the one you kind of says you cannot keep all three of those guys in the OF.
Now when it comes to Plesac, I actually wasn't referring to you, but some people are ready to make trades to make them it feels like lol
Gson
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staying with the smaller deals... this is a smallish deal called the Double Nickel 5.5 in, 5.5 out for all three teams..
Dbax get: Ernie Clement SS, Josh Wolf P & Yu Chang Util.
Phillies get: David Peralta OF & Luke Weaver P
Guardians get: Rafael Marchan C & Micky Moniak OF
While a smallish deal.. an effective deal.. the original author, a DBax fan, had no Chang or Moniak, but was otherwise as presented.. This is the kind of "under the radar deal" that matters to small market teams..
Thoughts?..
Dbax get: Ernie Clement SS, Josh Wolf P & Yu Chang Util.
Phillies get: David Peralta OF & Luke Weaver P
Guardians get: Rafael Marchan C & Micky Moniak OF
While a smallish deal.. an effective deal.. the original author, a DBax fan, had no Chang or Moniak, but was otherwise as presented.. This is the kind of "under the radar deal" that matters to small market teams..
Thoughts?..