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Collin Sexton | The Young Bull

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What Resolves First?

  • Collin Sexton's Restricted Free Agency

    Votes: 19 38.8%

  • Baker Mayfield's Tenure with the Browns

    Votes: 30 61.2%
  • Total voters
    49
  • Poll closed .
inliner311 said:
I think he was referring to this part of Douglar's post

What makes Sexton so potentially valuable?​

Scoring a lot of points is hard. Scoring a lot of points efficiently is harder. Scoring a lot of points efficiently early in your career is perhaps the single hardest thing to do in all of basketball. There are few greater barometers of future stardom than that, and Sexton checks all three boxes. Only 16 players have ever scored 24 points per game on 57 percent or better true shooting before turning 23. Sexton is one of them. The other 15 all went on to make All-NBA Teams. You've probably heard of most of them. Michael Jordan. Kevin Durant. Luka Doncic. And a player we keep coming back to in this story: Booker.
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Fully aware, but I truly wonder if the author meant for that opening to be such a brutal indictment. It's like the evidence didn't match his thesis at all.

That's the polarity of this contract negotiation: the "Do right by Sexton" crowd will focus on the scoring. The "Do right by the franchise" crowd will point to everything else.

I really do believe something will get done and neither side will hold grudges.
 
Randolphkeys said:
Comparing Sexton to two absolutely brutal contracts that were unloaded and late blooming Tyus Jones ain't gonna win you the debate tournament.
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I was talking about the 15 guys ahead of him in scoring at his age. They are all stars. People won't say it, but Sexton has as good a shot as any other young guy on our team who hasn't to make an allstar appearance. He has one season of allstar stats already

I hate to sound like a Sexton Fanboy, but people are underrating him. Why does he have no upside? He doesn't need major changes in his game, he needs maturity, to defend better and to read the defense better so he can make better drive and kick passes/drop off passes.

He could go into another level of efficiency just by shooting more 3s.
 
Randolphkeys said:
Fully aware, but I truly wonder if the author meant for that opening to be such a brutal indictment. It's like the evidence didn't match his thesis at all.

That's the polarity of this contract negotiation: the "Do right by Sexton" crowd will focus on the scoring. The "Do right by the franchise" crowd will point to everything else.

I really do believe something will get done and neither side will hold grudges.
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2 guys on our own roster that make 16-17 and I am not sure either Lauri or Levert are better than Sexton.
 
Cavatt said:
2 guys on our own roster that make 16-17 and I am not sure either Lauri or Levert are better than Sexton.
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We are hearing that the front office is as torn as you and I on this "LeVert or Sexton" quandary.

I really do not believe Cavs fans have seen LeVert with the full cast around him, or have seen LeVert comfortable in his role yet. We are hearing that he has fans in the building. At the same time, Sexton bet on himself and rolled snake eyes with that injury.

I want to see the Cavs retain them both this year so the comparison has a larger sample size, but have escape routes. It's a logjam for one position, but it's an important position all the same.
 
Derek said:
I think that’s the disconnect.

You say “very special” where I think most would say “pretty good”.

You mention the lack of examples of guys that can score like he has being offered so little, but I struggle to find many examples of guys like Collin at all.

Good volume scorer on average efficiency, but he’s the size of a PG, can’t play PG, and can’t defend anybody. Due to the lack of precedent, it’s easy to see why there’s the division there is on his value.
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Tony Parker. Fast as hell, can score at will. Isn't a great playmaker. In his 3rd year he was getting 1.1 more assists than Collin and is worse in every other area basically, very similar rebounding. So like Tony Parker that scores 10 more points a game is worth just a hair over the MLE?

Screenshot 2022-07-29 4.10.20 PM.png
 
Cavatt said:
2 guys on our own roster that make 16-17 and I am not sure either Lauri or Levert are better than Sexton.
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We also paid Markkanen without knowing if he fit. I remember getting alot of flack for suggesting we go after Markkanen and that was when I suggested we pay him the MLE. I don't think anyone thought we would go after Markkanen and also pay him what we did.

I think this coaching staff is one that will discover lineups from playing our roster more than crafting lineups on paper and get them work on the court.
 
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inliner311 said:
We also paid Markkanen without knowing if he fit. I remember getting alot of flack for suggesting we go after Markkanen and that was when I suggested we pay him the MLE. I don't think anyone thought we would go after Markkanen and also pay him what we did.
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So the front office was ahead of the curve and nailed the Marrkanen negotiation. Why the lack of trust as they negotiate with Sexton's reps? I've thought they are handling both exceptionally well, way better than Griffin in Klutch contract talks.
 
Cavatt said:
Tony Parker. Fast as hell, can score at will. Isn't a great playmaker. In his 3rd year he was getting 1.1 more assists than Collin and is worse in every other area basically, very similar rebounding. So like Tony Parker that scores 10 more points a game is worth just a hair over the MLE?

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Sexton is a better shooter but TP was always had more natural vision and was better on D than Collin. TP took a few years to earn his spot and got to learn from the best coach in the business, not the parade of clowns and JBB we've had
 
Randolphkeys said:
So the front office was ahead of the curve and nailed the Marrkanen negotiation. Why the lack of trust as they negotiate with Sexton's reps? I've thought they are handling both exceptionally well, way better than Griffin in Klutch contract talks.
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I think they will negotiate it well with Rich Paul at the end of the day. I've been saying that I think both are at a starting point and will come to a middle ground. This is a starting offer and not a take it or leave it offer.

I also think the Cavs respect the relationship they have with Rich Paul alot more than what the public perception is of Rich Paul taking advantage of the Cavs. I wrote a couple pages back about what Rich Paul has done for this organization which would be favors that would be real hard to put a dollar value on and could be close to priceless.
 
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foucault87 said:
Sexton is a better shooter but TP was always had more natural vision and was better on D than Collin. TP took a few years to earn his spot and got to learn from the best coach in the business, not the parade of clowns and JBB we've had
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He was not a good defender at all. Had a good defensive rating on some of the best defensive teams I have ever seen. Once he was in his prime he was in 107-108 defensive rating territory where Sexton is.

He didn't pass much. He was a scoring pg. He got 1 more assist per game in the same amount of min. 5 assists for a starting pg is low.
 
Cavatt said:
Tony Parker. Fast as hell, can score at will. Isn't a great playmaker. In his 3rd year he was getting 1.1 more assists than Collin and is worse in every other area basically, very similar rebounding. So like Tony Parker that scores 10 more points a game is worth just a hair over the MLE?

View attachment 11121
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This is super insulting to Tony Parker, and ignores a ton of context. Not sure there’s a conversation worth having here if this is where your head is.
 
Young Tony Parker was absolutely an undersized combo guard. His ability to set the table came in his late 20s. Let's have some respect for the facilitating Pops got out of everyone on the court. Duncan always averaged between 3-4 assists a game, Manu Ginobli passed like a point guard, and then the other wing usually had plus playmaking: Brent Barry, Boris Diaw, Hedo for a while... really the type of secondary playmaking that our front office looks for in the draft.
 
Randolphkeys said:
Young Tony Parker was absolutely an undersized combo guard. His ability to set the table came in his late 20s. Let's have some respect for the facilitating Pops got out of everyone on the court. Duncan always averaged between 3-4 assists a game, Manu Ginobli passed like a point guard, and then the other wing usually had plus playmaking: Brent Barry, Boris Diaw, Hedo for a while... really the type of secondary playmaking that our front office looks for in the draft.
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03-04 was also pretty close to when the league bottomed out in terms of pace and scoring efficiency.

Parker might have only averaged an extra assist per game, but per 100 possessions, he averaged 8.6 to Sexton’s career-high 6.1 (he’s a hair under 5 for his career). Parker would average somewhere between 9-12.4 each season over the course of the next decade.

That’s a pretty stark difference. Parker might not have been Steve Nash, but calling him “not a great playmaker” is just a lie.

ETA: Also, as bad as his scoring efficiency looks, that was league average in 03-04, same as Collin in 20-21, and the Spurs won 57 games.
 
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Derek said:
03-04 was also pretty close to when the league bottomed out in terms of pace and scoring efficiency.

Parker might have only averaged an extra assist per game, but per 100 possessions, he averaged 8.6 to Sexton’s career-high 6.1 (he’s a hair under 5 for his career). Parker would average somewhere between 9-12.4 each season over the course of the next decade.

That’s a pretty stark difference. Parker might not have been Steve Nash, but calling him “not a great playmaker” is just a lie.
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Tony is very underrated that dude was a beast
 
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