Collin Sexton | The Young Bull

[CavsKermit]

I was talking about the 15 guys ahead of him in scoring at his age. They are all stars. People won't say it, but Sexton has as good a shot as any other young guy on our team who hasn't to make an allstar appearance. He has one season of allstar stats already

I hate to sound like a Sexton Fanboy, but people are underrating him. Why does he have no upside? He doesn't need major changes in his game, he needs maturity, to defend better and to read the defense better so he can make better drive and kick passes/drop off passes.

He could go into another level of efficiency just by shooting more 3s.

All of these items, better defense, better floor vision and passing, reading defenses better, and shooting more threes would constitute major changes.

More importantly, they would constitute major changes the Cavs have been asking for over the course of his rookie contract and haven't gotten.

Also, something people are neglecting to mention is the author of that article basically acknowledges Sexton's s not a good fit next to Garland. He's being critical of the other teams in the NBA for not stepping up to the plate and taking a chance on Sexton.

 

[foucault87]

I do think Collin has a legit place in the league but the cross over of teams that have space and/or reasonable assets for snt and are a good fit is nonexistent right now. Dallas is probably the closest, but we aren't getting Maxi or DFS back

 

[ryanf]

I really do not believe Cavs fans have seen LeVert with the full cast around him, or have seen LeVert comfortable in his role yet. We are hearing that he has fans in the building. At the same time, Sexton bet on himself and rolled snake eyes with that injury.

given levert's injury history (last season is one of his healthiest seasons, believe it or not), i won't count on him or the team getting comfortable on his role.

 

[ChicagoCavFan]

I would think on a 1 and 1 that next contract is already set. For instance, Garland goes down and you become lead dog and take us on a deep playoff run, we are going into tax anyway so here is your max contract on a platter. If throughout the season it is apparent Caris shows as the better fit but you prove to be a 6MOY here is the contract range. Any amount of tiers or factors (for instance, Caris going down and Sexton sliding into that SG role like a glove, etc) you want to run with here is what those slot into. Doubling down on the bet on himself due to an injury year. A mulligan.

They can even prepare whatever public negotiation tactics that want to deploy and when to make each other look good. All theatre at that point.

 

[Boobie4Three]

I would think on a 1 and 1 that next contract is already set. For instance, Garland goes down and you become lead dog and take us on a deep playoff run, we are going into tax anyway so here is your max contract on a platter. If throughout the season it is apparent Caris shows as the better fit but you prove to be a 6MOY here is the contract range. Any amount of tiers or factors (for instance, Caris going down and Sexton sliding into that SG role like a glove, etc) you want to run with here is what those slot into. Doubling down on the bet on himself due to an injury year. A mulligan.

They can even prepare whatever public negotiation tactics that want to deploy and when to make each other look good. All theatre at that point.

Yep, it's mostly theatre. There's no way Sexton isn't here unless someone bites and a big offer sheet comes in more than 18M per. Sexton can be deployed a variety of ways depending on team needs and injuries. That is his biggest value for this team going deep to the 'offs, he's good INSURANCE.

We know DG and Levert will go down at some point. Good teams have redundancy and a little luck. Plus we need to keep DG fresh throughout the season. We need to think bigger picture. Sexton is insurance.

 

[cavsfever]

My 2 cents, for whatever it's worth is, you don't determine Sexton's value based on whatever our salary cap implications are, that's a fool's path. You want to keep talent, whatever that costs, and then figure out the rest. Sexton, regardless of position/starting etc... is a top 5 player on our team, maybe even top 3 this year.

But I do think you consider how high you can go and still have a tradable contract. Is paying Sexton closer to 17/18 mill a season harder to trade than 15 million? I don't think it ends up being any more difficult, probably could even go up to 20 million a year, and he's still tradable and seen as a "promising talent" etc... (aka, he doesn't hurt a trade). Yeah, 25 million a year, and you'll struggle to find a partner (but at 3 years, might not even be that difficult).

With all that in mind, I see no reason for Sexton to sign yet, if he can squeeze go from 3 years 40 million to 3 years 50 million (or even 3 years at 41 million), that is easily worth the wait, and for the Cavs, probably a very good deal still that's easy to trade if necessary.

I agree that for critical talent you keep them regardless of cost. But I question whether Sexton is critical talent. He’s definitely not a top three talent on our team - he’s not close to any of the big three. Yes he’s a top five talent on the team, but you have to judge talent relative to the league not the team. The fifth best player on a borderline playoff team is not in general going to be worth sacrificing future payroll flexibility for.

 

[CavsKermit]

I agree that for critical talent you keep them regardless of cost. But I question whether Sexton is critical talent. He’s definitely not a top three talent on our team - he’s not close to any of the big three. Yes he’s a top five talent on the team, but you have to judge talent relative to the league not the team. The fifth best player on a borderline playoff team is not in general going to be worth sacrificing future payroll flexibility for.

I would add that the both the Nets and Lakers took the talent-above-all-other-considerations approach over the last couple years and to say it didn't work out would be quite the understatement.

 

[buzzdog]

This is super insulting to Tony Parker, and ignores a ton of context. Not sure there’s a conversation worth having here if this is where your head is.

I find it hilarious that you are comparing, apples to apples, a combo guard on very stable Popovich coached teams to what Sexton played with.

 

[Derek]

I find it hilarious that you are comparing, apples to apples, a combo guard on very stable Popovich coached teams to what Sexton played with.

I respond to someone saying that Collin Sexton is basically Tony Parker but a way better scorer, and I’m the one being hilarious?

I’m just going to see my way out of this thread because I must be in a different universe than everyone else

 

[Randolphkeys]

I find it hilarious that you are comparing, apples to apples, a combo guard on very stable Popovich coached teams to what Sexton played with.

While the site compares Sexton to a first ballot HOF player, everyone is hilarious.

 

[foucault87]

Better than a rich man's Boobie Gibson

 

[buzzdog]

In no way am I comparing Sexton to Tony Parker although I'm aware others have. Different players, teams, and eras. But please don't use Parker's stats as a veteran playing on Popovich teams as a way to throw shade on Sexton's first 3 seasons either, that's just as disingenuous as using Sexton's empty scoring stats to boost him versus Parker.

I've said for several years that the Cavs should just let Sexton get to RFA and let the league set his value, and that's where we're at right now. So I'd say I got my wish in how the Cavs are handling it. Having said that pretty much every possible factor has gone wrong for Sexton, and his value around the league is currently below what his true value probably should be. But it is what it is, and Sexton helped make his own bed so he needs to deal with his value where it's at right now.

 

[Derek]

In no way am I comparing Sexton to Tony Parker although I'm aware others have. Different players, teams, and eras. But please don't use Parker's stats as a veteran playing on Popovich teams as a way to throw shade on Sexton's first 3 seasons either, that's just as disingenuous as using Sexton's empty scoring stats to boost him versus Parker.

I've said for several years that the Cavs should just let Sexton get to RFA and let the league set his value, and that's where we're at right now. So I'd say I got my wish in how the Cavs are handling it. Having said that pretty much every possible factor has gone wrong for Sexton, and his value around the league is currently below what his true value probably should be. But it is what it is, and Sexton helped make his own bed so he needs to deal with his value where it's at right now.

If somebody did this, I have them on ignore

All I was doing was dispelling a comp somebody else made (21 y/o Parker to 22 y/o Sexton).

 

[kidduck]

FWIW, a tidbit from a Bleacher Report article:

Chris Fedor of Cleveland.com dropped that report during an appearance on the Lowe Post Podcast (h/t Peter Dewey of Cavaliers Nation):

"There are multiple people inside the organization that if they have their choice between Caris and Collin, they would take Caris over Collin because of the size, because of the length, because of the versatility that he can bring on the defensive end of the floor. And they liked what they saw with Caris and Darius together. Obviously, the numbers back that up."

 

[CavsKermit]

FWIW, a tidbit from a Bleacher Report article:

Chris Fedor of Cleveland.com dropped that report during an appearance on the Lowe Post Podcast (h/t Peter Dewey of Cavaliers Nation):

"There are multiple people inside the organization that if they have their choice between Caris and Collin, they would take Caris over Collin because of the size, because of the length, because of the versatility that he can bring on the defensive end of the floor. And they liked what they saw with Caris and Darius together. Obviously, the numbers back that up."

Ben doesn't believe Fedor has multiple sources in the front office.