Amed Rosario - Play or Trade?

AZ_ said:

I’m saying pretending you know the answer to this is nothing beyond projection.

I’m saying he’s earned his spot and it appears obvious he’s coming back for the start of 2023, his level of play will need to maintain that spot.

Otherwise, he’s getting passed. That’s the nature of the business.

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There are no known answers until after the fact in baseball. Even having stats that suggest certain things are not certainties.

So all we have is opinion and ours’ differ in the idea that Amed has “earned it”. I think it’s
more to do with he has no market and they need him and his average play as an insurance policy for the lack of a better description. There’s an opportunity here for a younger, way less expensive, better defensive player with better offensive upside. However like you stated there is no way to know.

Thanks for the clarification.

CDAV45 said:

There are no known answers until after the fact in baseball. Even having stats that suggest certain things are not certainties.

So all we have is opinion and ours’ differ in the idea that Amed has “earned it”. I think it’s
more to do with he has no market and they need him and his average play as an insurance policy for the lack of a better description.

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How is that different from earning it?


He’s earned the right to be on the team because of the lacking, obvious better option.

You’re agreeing with my premise and calling it disagreement…

AZ_ said:

How is that different from earning it?


He’s earned the right to be on the team because of the lacking, obvious better option.

You’re agreeing with my premise and calling it disagreement…

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No, that’s not what I’m intending to do. I think he’s benefitting from impending circumstances and his own lack of value to other teams. I guess if you mean by being mediocre he has earned the starting SS gig then I can agree with that.

CDAV45 said:

No, that’s not what I’m intending to do. I think he’s benefitting from impending circumstances and his own lack of value to other teams. I guess if you mean by being mediocre he has earned the starting SS gig then I can agree with that.

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You’re literally saying the same thing I am.

I’m saying he’s earned his role because the team lacks a better current option (impending circumstances), and that his play will need to maintain that spot.


I don’t understand what’s so hard about comprehending this without trying so hard to find disagreement, but oh well.

CDAV45 said:

No, that’s not what I’m intending to do. I think he’s benefitting from impending circumstances and his own lack of value to other teams. I guess if you mean by being mediocre he has earned the starting SS gig then I can agree with that.

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Control + Price + cheaper/potentially better options..

Consider the potential better options as trade bait or Amed.. either way.. someone is going to be wearing a different team's uniform...

The only questions are: when?... and for whom?

AZ_ said:

You’re literally saying the same thing I am.

I’m saying he’s earned his role because the team lacks a better current option (impending circumstances), and that his play will need to maintain that spot.


I don’t understand what’s so hard about comprehending this without trying so hard to find disagreement, but oh well.

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@CDAV45 loves to argue and he doesn't understand he does, but that's a story for a different day... lol

Rosario hit .314 with runners on last year and .299 with RISP. He hit better with runners on by 60 points (.254 with the bases empty). IOW, he was a good guy to have at the plate during a rally.

He was 18-for-22 in stolen bases and should do a little better this year with the basepaths being shortened by 4.5" plus pitchers being limited by how often they can throw over. I could see him stealing 25.

Not to mention that nobody gets from 1st to 3rd on a single, 2nd to home on a single, or 1st to home on a double better than Amed.

I get that he rarely walks or gets an extra base hit, but once he's on it puts a lot of pressure on the pitcher and he always takes the extra base if it's there. So his singles are worth a little more than a single by, for example, Josh Naylor.

That being said, Gimenez had a higher Fangraphs WAR than Rosario by a mile (6.1 to 2.4) and a higher defensive rating (12.0 to -2.2). He led Rosario in wRC+ 140 to 103. I think we could move Gimenez to shortstop and improve that position offensively and defensively, probably by a lot. The question is whether we can find a second baseman (Freeman, Rocchio) who could match Rosario's offensive production or come close.

If the G's think they can find a decent bat at second and they can trade Rosario for a good lefty reliever and a better backup catcher than the free agent we signed then I might go for that. I'd like to have more than one lefty in the pen and I'd like to keep Bo Naylor in Columbus for at least the first half.

By the way, I liked what I saw of Freeman. His first month he hit .194 in 31 AB's, but his second month he hit .283/.610 in 46 AB's. It looked like he just needed some time to get comfortable. I didn't like the one walk in his last 46 AB's, however, or the lack of power (16 singles, 3 doubles, no triples or home runs).

Amed is average, but average has value. The problem is, he's nobody's plan A. (Except the Guardians.)
He has weaknesses and he has strengths. It's the balance that makes him tricky.

He hit LHP better than Jose, Steven Kwan, or Oscar did last year. That's kind of important considering the structure of our lineup.
He's often exciting to watch, sometimes hilariously so.

On the other hand, he doesn't distinguish himself in the field or at the plate facing RHP and he uses a LOT of outs. Rather important.

(If you reversed their platoon numbers, he'd be a more valuable hitter than Luis Arráez. Not meaningful, but I find it interesting how valuable simply batting lefty can be.)

Barring a serious career-year spike, nobody's going to invest nearly $20 MM per year in his skill set. He's just not that guy right now.

Will he be somebody's plan B?

Benway said:

Will he be somebody's plan B?

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Whoa now. Im not the biggest Amed Rosario fan, but its a little extreme to think that he's going to kill the season before it ever sees the light of day.

*Not for regular birth control.

sportscoach said:

@CDAV45 loves to argue and he doesn't understand he does, but that's a story for a different day... lol

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Wow! This isn't starting an argument is it dipshit? lol

I'm not arguing with AZ. It was a discussion and I made it quite clear in my initial response that I didn't understand what he was saying. Then he didn't understand what I was saying. I hardly call that an argument, but you do you.

AZ_ said:

You’re literally saying the same thing I am.

I’m saying he’s earned his role because the team lacks a better current option (impending circumstances), and that his play will need to maintain that spot.


I don’t understand what’s so hard about comprehending this without trying so hard to find disagreement, but oh well.

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The disagreement lies with the word "earned". He might not even be the best option because like you said, we don't know. I do think we have some common ground here and it was the idea of having a conversation, not the motivation of disagreement that incentivized my response. My intent wasn't to agitate so apologies if I did.

CDAV45 said:

The disagreement lies with the word "earned". He might not even be the best option because like you said, we don't know. I do think we have some common ground here and it was the idea of having a conversation, not the motivation of disagreement that incentivized my response. My intent wasn't to agitate so apologies if I did.

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Yeah, I don’t disrespect people starting for a playoff team and say that wasn’t earned..

Guess that’s where we disagree. Because he worked pretty hard, and you’re calling him names from a keyboard.

So, from my perspective, he’s earned it. To achieve that is to have earned it, anything else is largely just disrespecting the player.

AZ_ said:

Yeah, I don’t disrespect people starting for a playoff team and say that wasn’t earned..

Guess that’s where we disagree. Because he worked pretty hard, and you’re calling him names from a keyboard.

So, from my perspective, he’s earned it. To achieve that is to have earned it, anything else is largely just disrespecting the player.

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What names am I calling him? I've never said he didn't work hard and he's an incredibly likable personality.

Discussing the circumstance objectively isn't disrespecting anyone, but oh well.