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2023 Browns Off-Season Thread II: Free Agent Marathon: Settling in for the Long Haul: Slow and Steady: Patience is a Virtue: Loose Lips Sink Ships!

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Triplethreat said:
I still cannot believe the Jags got Calvin Ridley for a 2 and a 5.

What an incredible get that would’ve been here in Cleveland.
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He would of been, but Ridley is owed 11 mill this year, really a good deal for his production but about 10 million more than Moore. Also Ridley has only 1 more year on his current contract vs 2 more years for Moore. Both factors. Also Ridley is 7 years older than Moore.

But if you are just looking at Ridley vs Moore with no other factors, I agree RIdley is the better receiver. But More cost us allot less both with the draft capital spent and with the money spent and has a year less of team control.

I am happy with Moore, but if they thought Ridley was worth it, would of been happy with him too.
 
Lee said:
He would of been, but Ridley is owed 11 mill this year, really a good deal for his production but about 10 million more than Moore. Also Ridley has only 1 more year on his current contract vs 2 more years for Moore. Both factors. Also Ridley is 7 years older than Moore.

But if you are just looking at Ridley vs Moore with no other factors, I agree RIdley is the better receiver. But More cost us allot less both with the draft capital spent and with the money spent and has a year less of team control.

I am happy with Moore, but if they thought Ridley was worth it, would of been happy with him too.
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I don’t even think it’d be an argument for Andrew Berry weighing that. If he had the opportunity to get Ridley right now for a 2 and a 5 he’d have done it over Moore.

Kind of a pointless argument but I’m still excited to see Moore in this offense.
 
Triplethreat said:
I don’t even think it’d be an argument for Andrew Berry weighing that. If he had the opportunity to get Ridley right now for a 2 and a 5 he’d have done it over Moore.

Kind of a pointless argument but I’m still excited to see Moore in this offense.
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Dont kid yourself, Berry has to weigh everything when puting together a roster. There is a true hard cap in the NFL, you either pay it today or tomorrow, but Barry has proven he loves cap flexibility, so the cheaper player is in his wheel house

I do agree it was a good deal for Ridley who is on a reasonable contract.
 
Also worth noting that right now, the Ridley compensation is only a 2023 5th and a 2024 4th

That 2024 4th can become a 3rd with playing time incentives and becomes a 2nd if Ridley signs a long term extension with the Jaguars



If it's all equal, yes, give me the player Ridley. But it's already been discussed ad nauseum that a lot of the value from Elijah Moore comes from his 2 yr $3.2m contract. All the more valuable for a team with several big dollar contracts on both sides of the ball.
 
AZ_ said:
Really really glad nobody of any significance listened to this, because its undeniably a worse option than acquiring a 22-year-old with similar production or better on his rookie deal.



As some are suggesting on the Twitters, Moore could primarily work as Z and move into the slot in 31 based on matchup or scheme.





If Moore takes the Z position away from DPJ or winds up taking the primary share of targets & routes run, that means he's earned them.

Which is okay by me. Adding DPJ into the slot as a matchup problem is an intriguing possibility as well, quite a bit of room to the outside which allows him to matchup 1-on-1 vs. what is likely to be an undersized DB.
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Actually it does look like they listened to me since my argument was not blowing our picks on jeudy who I find very overrated. So you’re welcome crisis averted.
 
The Moore I listen to him, the more I like his mentality.

He has the mentality of a bonafide superstar. This could understandably lead to problems if he's not getting targeted at all or he's being thrown to by a garbage QB (Jets), but could reap great benefits when he forms a chemistry with an elite'ish QB (like how we're hoping Deshaun will be). I think he and DPJ could be Z and Y interchangeably to keep the defense guessing... but I agree with Burns that Moore would fit better at Z.

DPJ was in the slot 22% of his routes last year and he performed MUCH better against zone than he did against man. I could see him sliding more firmly into that Y role where you're likely to see more zone in the middle of the field compared to the outside. Moore is a man beater and fits into the Z role better.
 
Vee-Rex said:
The Moore I listen to him, the more I like his mentality.

He has the mentality of a bonafide superstar. This could understandably lead to problems if he's not getting targeted at all or he's being thrown to by a garbage QB (Jets), but could reap great benefits when he forms a chemistry with an elite'ish QB (like how we're hoping Deshaun will be). I think he and DPJ could be Z and Y interchangeably to keep the defense guessing... but I agree with Burns that Moore would fit better at Z.

DPJ was in the slot 22% of his routes last year and he performed MUCH better against zone than he did against man. I could see him sliding more firmly into that Y role where you're likely to see more zone in the middle of the field compared to the outside. Moore is a man beater and fits into the Z role better.
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I also think we're going to utilize Amari from the slot a bit more. Elijah and DPJ give us that flexibility.

Some of our best offense last year was when Amari was in motion or lining up in the slot.

He'll still primarily line up at X, but it's just another wrinkle Stefanski will utilize to make our offense explosive.
 
I mean, an argument can be made that the acquisition of Calvin Ridley was a better trade than the Browns acquisition of Elijah Moore.

...but the guy who is defending the Ridley trade has been completely devoid of evidence and is looking like he's over his head making any noteworthy points.

At the end of the day, play on the field determines the winners and losers of any trade. Let's see if Ridley can knock off two seasons worth of rust. Let's see if Moore makes the jump all these advance stats predict.
 
Randolphkeys said:
I mean, an argument can be made that the acquisition of Calvin Ridley was a better trade than the Browns acquisition of Elijah Moore.

...but the guy who is defending the Ridley trade has been completely devoid of evidence and is looking like he's over his head making any noteworthy points.

At the end of the day, play on the field determines the winners and losers of any trade. Let's see if Ridley can knock off two seasons worth of rust. Let's see if Moore makes the jump all these advance stats predict.
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Ridley has undoubtedly been the better player thus far in their respective careers. He's also six and a half years older, a knucklehead, will be going into the season having missed almost two years of football, and is making five times as much.

I tend to think that Moore has a very similar ceiling to Ridley. He's a little smaller, but he's a better athlete.
 
Jack Brickman said:
Ridley has undoubtedly been the better player thus far in their respective careers. He's also six and a half years older, a knucklehead, will be going into the season having missed almost two years of football, and is making five times as much.

I tend to think that Moore has a very similar ceiling to Ridley. He's a little smaller, but he's a better athlete.
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This is like proclaiming you’d rather have Justin Fields than Deshaun Watson.

He’s cheaper! He cost less! Deshaun was out of football for 2 years and is expensive!

Flat out, Ridley > Moore.
 
Triplethreat said:
This is like proclaiming you’d rather have Justin Fields than Deshaun Watson.

He’s cheaper! He cost less! Deshaun was out of football for 2 years and is expensive!

Flat out, Ridley > Moore.
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Yeah, the difference is that Watson can do things that Fields cannot. Justin Fields will never have Watson's arm talent, and arm talent is the defining quality of the position they both play. It's the same reason why, if you remove character concerns, I'd rather have Watson than Lamar Jackson. At the end of the day, Jackson just can't sling the ball like Watson can. He'll never be as accurate, and he'll always need to rely on his athleticism to some extent.

I don't think there's anything Ridley can do on a football field that Moore can't, aside from be 6'1 I guess. If they had declared the same year, I'd have had Moore ranked above him. He was four years younger and just as impressive, if not more, in college. Much better agility numbers too.
 
Are we done adding players until the draft? I also read how the Browns shouldnt draft a DT because he'd be a red shirt considering we have our 4-5 DTs.

Would love a pass catching RB and try to hit on a LB? Another young DB, some fat guys on the offensive side.
 
Jack Brickman said:
Ridley has undoubtedly been the better player thus far in their respective careers. He's also six and a half years older, a knucklehead, will be going into the season having missed almost two years of football, and is making five times as much.

I tend to think that Moore has a very similar ceiling to Ridley. He's a little smaller, but he's a better athlete.
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Moore cant become Ridley level production with Cooper, just like Ridley didnt make the leap until Julio left.

So many factors go into WR production, but I have no problem saying Ridley might be the better slot receiver and still think Moore is the better fit when considering, age, contract and cost.
 
Real Deal said:
Are we done adding players until the draft? I also read how the Browns shouldnt draft a DT because he'd be a red shirt considering we have our 4-5 DTs.

Would love a pass catching RB and try to hit on a LB? Another young DB, some fat guys on the offensive side.
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The Browns signed some young intriguing defensive tackles, but only Dalvin Tomlinson has proven that he deserves 60+% of the snaps. If anything, Togiai and Hill are just providing some competition for more talented players. Hurst might end up on the PUP list from week one.

The lack of competition at DT last summer was a mistake, and the defense's lackadaisical start to the season is evidence.
 
Triplethreat said:
This is like proclaiming you’d rather have Justin Fields than Deshaun Watson.

He’s cheaper! He cost less! Deshaun was out of football for 2 years and is expensive!

Flat out, Ridley > Moore.
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Some would rather have Fields over Watson.

Look at KC, the fact Mahommes is no longer on a rookie contract cost them Hill. Yet they won a SB this year without a Hill and paying Mahommes 50 million because the QB matters a hell of allot more than the best receiver or even the 3rd best receiver.

You cant make an apple and orange argument then pull out a plum and compare the QB position to the WR position. But because we do have a very expensive Watson, we have to make WR decisions based on cost. If we take 1 year of Ridley and try and resign him, it will cost us Cooper in the future.

These decisions arent made in a vacuum, you cant just go and sign the best player at every position and pay them huge salaries, this is not a video game.
 
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