2020-2021 Cavs Season General Discussion

[2 For The Brew]

I'm glad the Sexton hamstring injury turned out to be an actual (minor) injury and not a trade.

With this mega-draft looming where any of the top 4 spots could yield a legit franchise player, I think it makes most sense to figure out Sexland this summer. If we can draft Green, it may make sense to move Sexton. If we draft Suggs, it may make sense to move Garland. We're not winning anything this year anyway.

While the negative side of drafting BPA has been well-documented here, there is a positive side too: We have legitimate young talent that gives us great flexible and great trade assets to form a team that makes more sense when we have an actual franchise player and are ready to win.

I can understand not trusting Koby to properly manage the assets and build a winner given how he mostly botched the 2018 season. But purely based on this rebuild, and despite some of the optics, he's done really well at drafting and accumulating assets -- to me, the two most important parts of a rebuild that has not received any lottery luck yet.

It may make even more sense to move someone at the trade deadline next year. In fact we might wait a bit longer. We still don’t know exactly what we have not, let alone what we’ll have with our rookies next year.

We‘re so young that it’s going to take time to figure everything out.

In the meantime the kids are competing, especially at home. They should draw fans next season. I’m enjoying watching this season a LOT more than any other season after Kyrie left (regular season only of course).

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

He's not obviously better. He's a better rebounder. I'm surprised he isn't even the better passer

Hmm. I'm not saying that Deni has been good, yeah? but it's a night and day difference between how the Cavs manage Okoro and how the Wiz manage Deni. Deni would have looked drastically different than here than how he looks on the Wiz. Poor guy, really.

He is barely getting minutes, shot attempts, chances to initiate or do anything really. He just has to watch Beal and Russ do their thing and shoot like 3 catch and shoot attempts per game.

I don't think Okoro would have been given any playing time on the Wiz. As sad as this sounds.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

An excerpt from Kelsey Russo's colum in The Athletic:

The biggest move from here on out is building consistency as a team. The Cavs have a core group of players who have seen ups and downs this season. Their win against the Bulls on Wednesday night was another example of their potential to play as a team with how they moved the ball, knocked down shots and played team defense. They have the room to grow, allowing their young players to develop with one another on the floor.

“This group is a tight-knit group,” Bickerstaff said. “I look at guy-by-guy on our roster, and there’s not one of them, if I wasn’t their coach, that I wouldn’t be their friend. I think that’s kind of special. And they feel the same way about one another. They really like each other. And I think about that 10-game losing streak, if they weren’t connected, we wouldn’t have been able to get out of it the way that we did. And we got out of it, and we’re able to have some success. And then now we’re starting to find our stride a little bit with the guys getting back into rotation who were out for so long, and those things.”

“I’m glad (the trade deadline is) over with,” Bickerstaff said. “Hopefully, we can band together knowing that this is the group that we’re going to have going forward, and we can do some exciting things together.”

Larry Nance Jr was saying the same thing before the deadline passed.

I really like this group. I hope we get to stay together...enjoy this awesome group of guys that we have because we really do have a great group.

OK, I wish the Cavs were winning more games. It was tough watching them get their asses handed to them by the better Western Conference teams during that losing streak when their only healthy power forward was Dean Wade. But I've enjoyed watching a "connected" young team having some success and making progress despite being overmatched on most nights.

Where do they go from here? I would force feed Okoro, Wade, and Windler the rest of this season. I'd give Thomas more minutes - he's a big, athletic guard who could help us if he can knock down 3's. After that all we can do is hope we get a friendly ping pong ball.

One commentator said the top five picks in this draft would all be rated higher than LeMelo Ball if he were in this draft. We can only hope to get one of those guys and see continued improvement from Garland, Okoro, Windler, Wade, and Allen. Allen is in his fourth pro season and is still 22 years old, at least for another month.

 

[dms]

I didn't want to start a new thread, but,,,
Where Do We Go From Here.
The roster is now what it is.
Next season we will likely have 2 massive contracts in Love and Allen.
I believe Sexton will be in his contact year.
The biggest addition to the roster will likely be our draft pick. Probably pick #5-7 with the Cavs luck.
Improvement from young players on the roster should continue, but no major jump.
There are no significant unrestricted free agents likely to be attracted here.
Our most attractive trade chip might be Larry Nance Jr.
So can anybody offer a plan to make us competitive?
Ideas welcome.

Here's something I'll throw out there:
Offer our #1 pick (assume#5) and the choice of anyone on the roster for the first pick in the draft.

That would not be enough to interest anyone. The first pick, especially in this draft, is thought to be a team changing player. The 5th pick might well be another Isaac Okoro. And the player you are sending them will soon be demand a max or near max deal. Where's the benefit for the team with the first pick? The great thing about getting the first beyond getting the player is getting them on a cheap deal for 4-5 years.

His numbers should be waaay better than Okoro's adjusted by possession based on the fact he has been a pro for years. They aren't. He is supposed to have a polished game, while we expected Okoro to be Raw.

Seeing Okoro finish and hit 3's being more aggressive lately, I wouldn't trade them straight up right now.

 

[Dr No]

Where do they go from here? I would force feed Okoro, Wade, and Windler the rest of this season. I'd give Thomas more minutes - he's a big, athletic guard who could help us if he can knock down 3's. After that all we can do is hope we get a friendly ping pong ball.

I agree with this. We need 3 things from the rest of the season - no long-term injuries to key players, player development and good losses. We don't need to play Sexton, Allen and Nance 35+ minutes a game - we know what they are and we know we are keeping them. Let those guys play enough to get their numbers, but there is no reason to overplay any of them. Let's see what Hartenstein, Windler, Stevens, and Thomas can do with regular, predictable, minutes - look at what a difference that made with Wade. We gave Wade run and found that he's a keeper. Lets find out about those other guys. Okoro, Garland and Wade mostly need continued court time to grow their games. Hopefully we compete hard, win a few but lose more, find out what pieces are worth investing in and who needs let go, and then have a top 5 pick when its over.

 

[ansatsusha80]

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Another column from Kelsey Russo at The Athletic, this one on the Cavs' attempt to correct a big problem - the fact that they are the worst 3rd quarter team in the NBA. They are last in 3rd quarter scoring and the 3rd quarter is their worst quarter defensively.

There’s been a number of explanations given for their third-quarter struggles: missed shots, lack of energy and effort, struggles to defend. Sometimes, there’s no excuse. Whatever the reason, third quarters have been their Achilles heel. When they trail after the third quarter, the Cavs are 3-25 on the season.

So the Cavs tried something new at halftime against the Kings on Saturday night. They made a simple change to their routine and came out to the floor during halftime earlier to warm up their bodies, get their legs underneath them and put up shots.

“We got out there earlier and it sounds silly, but made sure we were ready to go,” Nance said. “You got back in the locker room and sit for 15 minutes or whatever it is, you get a little bit cold and you have to re-warm up. And we came out earlier on the clock, everyone got to move and shake a little bit and get our joint rewarmed, so when that third quarter started, we were ready to hit the ground running.”

That plan worked. The Cavs outscored Sacramento 26-22 in those 12 minutes out of halftime, giving them a 74-71 lead entering the fourth quarter. It’s just one game for this new adjustment, but it’s a start to see if it changes their success rate.

“It’s almost like we come out in a lull,” Nance said, describing their third-quarter struggles following the loss to the Lakers. “It’s almost like we’re still asleep. I’ll take some responsibility on that as well. I got to be the vet in that group and bring the energy, bring the spark from the start, and that’s something that I need to start doing more of.”

The column pointed out the Cavs are 12-4 when leading after three quarters and 3-25 when trailing. So in 84% of Cavs' games this year the team leading after three quarters wins.

I haven't gone back and counted but I'm sure there are a lot of games this year that were close at halftime but by the end of the third quarter the Cavs were down double digits and the game was over for all intents and purposes. The Cavs need to be ready to play at the start of the third and they need to have the mindset that the game will be decided in the next 12 minutes. Because about 80% of the time, it will.

 

[ansatsusha80]

 

[dartandbeer]

This season blows. So disappointed delly hasn’t had a game still.

 

[Alec]

Another column from Kelsey Russo at The Athletic, this one on the Cavs' attempt to correct a big problem - the fact that they are the worst 3rd quarter team in the NBA. They are last in 3rd quarter scoring and the 3rd quarter is their worst quarter defensively.

There’s been a number of explanations given for their third-quarter struggles: missed shots, lack of energy and effort, struggles to defend. Sometimes, there’s no excuse. Whatever the reason, third quarters have been their Achilles heel. When they trail after the third quarter, the Cavs are 3-25 on the season.

So the Cavs tried something new at halftime against the Kings on Saturday night. They made a simple change to their routine and came out to the floor during halftime earlier to warm up their bodies, get their legs underneath them and put up shots.

“We got out there earlier and it sounds silly, but made sure we were ready to go,” Nance said. “You got back in the locker room and sit for 15 minutes or whatever it is, you get a little bit cold and you have to re-warm up. And we came out earlier on the clock, everyone got to move and shake a little bit and get our joint rewarmed, so when that third quarter started, we were ready to hit the ground running.”

That plan worked. The Cavs outscored Sacramento 26-22 in those 12 minutes out of halftime, giving them a 74-71 lead entering the fourth quarter. It’s just one game for this new adjustment, but it’s a start to see if it changes their success rate.

“It’s almost like we come out in a lull,” Nance said, describing their third-quarter struggles following the loss to the Lakers. “It’s almost like we’re still asleep. I’ll take some responsibility on that as well. I got to be the vet in that group and bring the energy, bring the spark from the start, and that’s something that I need to start doing more of.”

The column pointed out the Cavs are 12-4 when leading after three quarters and 3-25 when trailing. So in 84% of Cavs' games this year the team leading after three quarters wins.

I haven't gone back and counted but I'm sure there are a lot of games this year that were close at halftime but by the end of the third quarter the Cavs were down double digits and the game was over for all intents and purposes. The Cavs need to be ready to play at the start of the third and they need to have the mindset that the game will be decided in the next 12 minutes. Because about 80% of the time, it will.

Talk about grasping for straws. when in reality...they just suck. Once again, the Cavaliers are the only team in the league experiencing some issue that defies all logic.

 

[foucault87]

Another column from Kelsey Russo at The Athletic, this one on the Cavs' attempt to correct a big problem - the fact that they are the worst 3rd quarter team in the NBA. They are last in 3rd quarter scoring and the 3rd quarter is their worst quarter defensively.

There’s been a number of explanations given for their third-quarter struggles: missed shots, lack of energy and effort, struggles to defend. Sometimes, there’s no excuse. Whatever the reason, third quarters have been their Achilles heel. When they trail after the third quarter, the Cavs are 3-25 on the season.

So the Cavs tried something new at halftime against the Kings on Saturday night. They made a simple change to their routine and came out to the floor during halftime earlier to warm up their bodies, get their legs underneath them and put up shots.

“We got out there earlier and it sounds silly, but made sure we were ready to go,” Nance said. “You got back in the locker room and sit for 15 minutes or whatever it is, you get a little bit cold and you have to re-warm up. And we came out earlier on the clock, everyone got to move and shake a little bit and get our joint rewarmed, so when that third quarter started, we were ready to hit the ground running.”

That plan worked. The Cavs outscored Sacramento 26-22 in those 12 minutes out of halftime, giving them a 74-71 lead entering the fourth quarter. It’s just one game for this new adjustment, but it’s a start to see if it changes their success rate.

“It’s almost like we come out in a lull,” Nance said, describing their third-quarter struggles following the loss to the Lakers. “It’s almost like we’re still asleep. I’ll take some responsibility on that as well. I got to be the vet in that group and bring the energy, bring the spark from the start, and that’s something that I need to start doing more of.”

The column pointed out the Cavs are 12-4 when leading after three quarters and 3-25 when trailing. So in 84% of Cavs' games this year the team leading after three quarters wins.

I haven't gone back and counted but I'm sure there are a lot of games this year that were close at halftime but by the end of the third quarter the Cavs were down double digits and the game was over for all intents and purposes. The Cavs need to be ready to play at the start of the third and they need to have the mindset that the game will be decided in the next 12 minutes. Because about 80% of the time, it will.

When have the Cavs ever been a good 3rd quarter team? I feel like this has been an issue since the Mike Brown/Larry Hughes days. At this point, I just accept it as a feature of the Cleveland Cavaliers.

 

[stick]

Will the Cavs move to 5-0 against Philly/Brooklyn on Thursday?

Too bad Cleveland doesn't play those teams every game, the regular season win record wouldn't stand a chance.

 

[rastamon87]

In other news, in a couple of days... It would AC's retirement day...

 

[Pioneer10]

This is just bad
Okoro is bottom for WAR, overall raptor and box score raptor among rookies

Among young players years 1-4 WAR out of a 123 players
Allen is 13th yeah and the rest
Wade is 72nd
Osman 76th
Sexton 93
Garland 113
Okoro 121

Among young players years 1-4 Overall Raptor out of a 123 players
Allen is 22nd year and then comes the rest
Wade is 60th
Osman 81st
Windler 86
Sexton 90
Garland 108
Okoro 116

Frankly surprised Osman isn't on the bottom but his defensive +/- and the player tracking says he's not good on defense but not terrible like a lot of the roster.

I have a Bball index subscription and it just doesn't get any better. They're advanced metric Lebron: Out of 8 tiers of players: Nance and Allen are in tier 4 then again another dumpster fire
Wade/Osman in tier 6
Sexton tier 7
Garland/Okoro tier 8

What's bringing Sexland down hard is just bad defensive numbers: box score and adjusted +/- and whatever variation of these you look at they just are bad at defense

 

[CavsFan07]

One commentator said the top five picks in this draft would all be rated higher than LeMelo Ball if he were in this draft. We can only hope to get one of those guys and see continued improvement from Garland, Okoro, Windler, Wade, and Allen. Allen is in his fourth pro season and is still 22 years old, at least for another month.

This is my biggest fear... that we fall out of the top 5 picks. Don't get me wrong I still want our guys to compete, but we better be careful because a LOT of teams are already in tank mode and we need to make sure we are there also.

But then again.... it is the Cavs.... who knows who the hell "their guy" would be in this draft.