2020-2021 Cavs Season General Discussion

[ryanf]

The key is to build a team with enough talent to continuously make the playoffs, but maintain assets so, if a superstar becomes available, you can pull off a trade. All three of those teams are doing that. Ditto with the Nuggets. Raptors did that for years and then got Kawhi.

Or... be a good team to attract a star in free agency. These days, superstar free agents don't just go for the money, they also look for the team that makes it possible for them to win a championship. You can't do that by consistently tanking.

 

[bronko]

My mom and I had season passes to the Cavs games and Jordan did not torch Harper over and over and over! Jordan basically owned the Cavs but again he said on more than one occasion that Harper was one of the toughest defenders he faced. But again we all have our own opinions and POVs.

My memory is of Jordan torching Harper over and over, not unlike he did everyone else. One detail, because Harper matched up size wise, and was athletic, the Cavs were possibly the only team to play Jordan one on one for the most part without a ton of help. Unsuccessfully, to be sure.

 

[Jordan]

Or... be a good team to attract a star in free agency. These days, superstar free agents don't just go for the money, they also look for the team that makes it possible for them to win a championship. You can't do that by consistently tanking.

Outside of LBJ, when was the last time a superstar went to a small market team in free agency?

I do think that, as a small market, you need to be good to keep your free agents. I just don’t know how much being good helps you sign superstars when your market doesn’t necessarily help their brand.

 

[Mr. Orange]

Outside of LBJ, when was the last time a superstar went to a small market team in free agency?

I do think that, as a small market, you need to be good to keep your free agents. I just don’t know how much being good helps you sign superstars when your market doesn’t necessarily help their brand.

Even a team like Chicago has trouble with bug name free agents. Cold weather and bad organization. Hell even a place like Denver has problems.

I think the Jazz are the best model for the Cavs. Deep team with a lot of good NBA players who play hard and have solid coaching. We should aspire for a team that can get a 3-8 seed and make playoff appearances. Maybe you get to an ECF and that would be great. 42-48 win type teams.

 

[AllforOne]

Outside of LBJ, when was the last time a superstar went to a small market team in free agency?

I do think that, as a small market, you need to be good to keep your free agents. I just don’t know how much being good helps you sign superstars when your market doesn’t necessarily help their brand.

To add another degree of difficulty: when was the last time a superstar went to a cold-weather small-market team in FA?

Teams in (relatively) smaller warmer-weather markets -- San Antonio, Orlando, Phoenix -- have the advantage of not being an icebox for four months every year. Tim Duncan once said he wanted to play in a city where he could wear sandals year-round. I'm sure he's not the only one.

And that's fine. As long as the Cavs can keep their own FAs and maybe bring in a disgruntled star (e.g., Kawhi in Toronto) when it's time to push in all of the chips, they can win.

 

[cabs]

don’t get why people hate cold weather, I prefer it

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

don’t get why people hate cold weather, I prefer it

They're worthless and weak.

 

[ryanf]

The lakers, when they were bad, was not able to sign their FA targets. Being a good team helps, specially if that may be the only thing working in your favor.

 

[AllforOne]

don’t get why people hate cold weather, I prefer it

I used to tell myself that too, until I spent some winter time in a warmer climate. (Not even "warm" per se -- just not freezing cold. As the joke goes -- tie a snowblower to the roof of your car and start driving south. When somebody stops you and asks "what's that thing you have tied to your car?", then you know you've gone far enough.) Cold and gray weather (like the cloudy 22 degrees we have here this morning) is draining.

Also, we have to remember that not everybody grew up in the cold north. A guy like Tim Duncan, who is from the Caribbean, probably got one taste of cold weather on a road trip and was like "fuck this noise, get me back to someplace sunny."

Point remains -- it's an additional obstacle for Cleveland in attracting free agent talent, and an additional reason why I'd never expect a top FA to come here. (Unless, y'know, he was born 40 miles away and wanted to bring a title to his victory-starved hometown. And that happens all the time, of course.)

 

[Hydroponic3385]

Yeah, snow and cold temperature are one thing. But lack of sunlight fucking sucks. And the combination of all three is rough.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

I'm fully in the let's become the recent Jazz / Pacers / Heat mode. We have a recent championship, now let's enjoy a long stretch as a solid team that year after year is a tough playoff out.

I think that's the plan. I don't see this organization doing what the Nets did and giving up Allen, Prince, and Caris LaVert plus four first round picks for a 31-year-old declining superstar.

But they could consider it at some point, especially with the depth they're developing. In a year or two there could be another Houston Rockets who are out of contention, looking at a rebuild, and have a James Harden who wants out. A team like the Cavaliers, who could put together a package of young, emerging talent, (e.g. Garland, Windler), Love's expiring contract (to make the salaries match), and some picks would be a team of interest. It would take some planets lining up, but it's not impossible. Two years from now the Cavs will have selected two additional first round picks and Love will be on the last year of his deal. That would be the perfect time to strike for a Jimmy Butler/Kawhi Leonard type if the opportunity is there.

By the way, the Nets beat the 6-8 Miami Heat last night by four points with Harden putting up eight shots in 38 minutes. Wow. Eight shots, 12 points. What happened to the guy who was a threat to score 50 on any given night? In the two games against the Cavs he took 14 shots in each game, and one game had an extra 10 minutes. It looks like Harden thinks his job is to pass the ball to Durant and Kyrie, who combined for 36 shots. I wonder if the Nets are OK with giving up a king's ransom for a pretty good 31-year-old point guard who is primarily a facilitator.

I think that teams who depend on 2-3 stars to carry them are very vulnerable to injury, like the Warriors after Durant went down in the Finals. Heck, the Cavs beat the Nets by 12 with Durant out on Friday. A team like the Cavs, OTOH, can lose Sexton, Garland, Okoro, or Love and still win their share. They were 7-7 while losing more games to injury than all but one team. Dante Exum did a great job of filling in for Garland before he got hurt, for example.

 

[AllforOne]

Yeah, snow and cold temperature are one thing. But lack of sunlight fucking sucks. And the combination of all three is rough.

Just a quick digression here - I didn't realize just how much it affects me until we bought a vacation home (on the beach in NC). This time of the year, the highs range from the high 40s to the 60s. So it is warmer than Cleveland, but not *that* much warmer -- it's not like you're going around in swimsuits this time of the year. But most of the days there are sunny, and that makes all the difference in the world. Again, I didn't appreciate how much of a difference it makes until seeing it for myself.

 

[Mr. Orange]

I think that's the plan. I don't see this organization doing what the Nets did and giving up Allen, Prince, and Caris LaVert plus four first round picks for a 31-year-old declining superstar.

But they could consider it at some point, especially with the depth they're developing. In a year or two there could be another Houston Rockets who are out of contention, looking at a rebuild, and have a James Harden who wants out. A team like the Cavaliers, who could put together a package of young, emerging talent, (e.g. Garland, Windler), Love's expiring contract (to make the salaries match), and some picks would be a team of interest. It would take some planets lining up, but it's not impossible. Two years from now the Cavs will have selected two additional first round picks and Love will be on the last year of his deal. That would be the perfect time to strike for a Jimmy Butler/Kawhi Leonard type if the opportunity is there.

By the way, the Nets beat the 6-8 Miami Heat last night by four points with Harden putting up eight shots in 38 minutes. Wow. Eight shots, 12 points. What happened to the guy who was a threat to score 50 on any given night? In the two games against the Cavs he took 14 shots in each game, and one game had an extra 10 minutes. It looks like Harden thinks his job is to pass the ball to Durant and Kyrie, who combined for 36 shots. I wonder if the Nets are OK with giving up a king's ransom for a pretty good 31-year-old point guard who is primarily a facilitator.

I think that teams who depend on 2-3 stars to carry them are very vulnerable to injury, like the Warriors after Durant went down in the Finals. Heck, the Cavs beat the Nets by 12 with Durant out on Friday. A team like the Cavs, OTOH, can lose Sexton, Garland, Okoro, or Love and still win their share. They were 7-7 while losing more games to injury than all but one team. Dante Exum did a great job of filling in for Garland before he got hurt, for example.

I think we should probably wait until the spring to evaluate the Nets. Most big three’s outside of Boston started off slow. And in this case they haven’t even practiced together. Usually these teams figure it out. The nets have an exception to fill out the roster too. I hope that’s used on Javale

 

[OptimusPrime]

The nets have an exception to fill out the roster too. I hope that’s used on Javale

I don't. They don't have anything to offer us for Javale.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I don't. They don't have anything to offer us for Javale.

There's something back-assward about folks looking at a specific team like the Nets and wondering "how can we get them Javale McGee", rather than looking at the entirety of the NBA and wondering who would give us the most for him.