2020-21 Offseason Discussion

[DCTribefan]

I’m all for grace and motion in athletics but watching him pitch and they way he contorted and shimmied pre windup, I felt like I’d been transported back to 1987 when my grandma would force me to watch Swan Lake or the Nutcracker with her on PBS in exchange for being allowed to watch Indians and Cavs games.

So in that regard I’m glad to not have to go through that anymore

Or maybe Kent “Teke” Tekulve.

 

[CDAV45]

I had Cimber as a possible cut candidate with next year's Rule 5 (replaced by Sandlin). Yet, I am surprised that it happened this early. Cimber has options and you had Taylor who would more than likely make it through waivers too.

I see Jordan as a player that Indians typically sign to their 40-man and then cut a month later for the next shiny toy, hoping they can sneak him down as he has already passed 20 or so other teams before our waiver claim. If they are serious about trading Lindor, then you needed room on 40-man anyways for the return (Cimber would be cut then) and may just want Taylor as the back-up in case we do trade Hedges (and if another catcher doesn't come back from Lindor).

I hope money wasn't the issue (2 mill vs $0.6 mill min) or it would be a sign of hard times. Yet, there is little room for Cimber (maybe 7th or 8th man who can go up and down for injuries but at $2 mill?)

Pen for next year is what? Kar, Clase, Whitegren, Quantrill (or starter and McK here), Maton, Hill, Nelson/Gose (Loogy). Plus, Plutko and Rodriquez who both have no options left on either (so Hill maybe will be that 8th swing guy).

Cimber's cost had nothing to do with it and his performance had everything to do with it. I'm glad to see him off the roster.

Quantrill will be a starter and I expect them to deal Carrasco.

I wonder what will happen to Plutko? He has to be hanging on by a thread.

 

[Gson]

Cimber's cost had nothing to do with it and his performance had everything to do with it. I'm glad to see him off the roster.

Quantrill will be a starter and I expect them to deal Carrasco.

I wonder what will happen to Plutko? He has to be hanging on by a thread.

It's not that Cimber pitched poorly.. in effect, he pitched adequately most of the time..but his margin for error was so slim... that Tito and then Sandy couldn't count or trust him when the game was close and later.. Every time he came in, Wickman flashbacks began popping !

W/R to Carrasco.. We know the Indians have announced that Lindor would be traded.. Assuming the CLEFO agrees with your assessment, we can see a Carrasco deal as likely.. So, does that mean a JRam deal can be far behind?..

 

[DCTribefan]

It's not that Cimber pitched poorly.. in effect, he pitched adequately most of the time..but his margin for error was so slim... that Tito and then Sandy couldn't count or trust him when the game was close and later.. Every time he came in, Wickman flashbacks began popping !

W/R to Carrasco.. We know the Indians have announced that Lindor would be traded.. Assuming the CLEFO agrees with your assessment, we can see a Carrasco deal as likely.. So, does that mean a JRam deal can be far behind?..

JRam deal is 12-18 months after a Cookie deal.

 

[Gson]

...or next week... no way of knowing..

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

If they trade Lindor and Carrasco there will surely be at least one relief pitcher and probably more coming back. I can't see them keeping Plutko and Jefry Rodriguez, neither of whom has shown much. Rodriguez is 27 and Plutko 29 so what you see is what you get. Maton and Hill are probably on the bubble as well. All these guys are right-handers and the Indians need a lefty or two since they're fresh out with Hand and Perez gone.

 

[DCTribefan]

...or next week... no way of knowing..

Extremely unlikely this off-season.

 

[Gson]

or completely likely.. no way of knowing..

 

[sportscoach]

I personally don't think Carrasco or JRam will get traded this offseason. I think Cleveland wants to keep both for the retooling time period.

Plutko is a guy who is more of the well respected type in around baseball so its really hard to cut a guy like him, but in my mind on paper, he needs to be cut. Its the off the field side that has kept him on the roster more than his on the field. Jefry was on the DL last season hence why we never saw him. They will give him another season before they decide to move on.

or completely likely.. no way of knowing..

With the retooling statement and not rebuilding, JRam is staying in Cleveland unless we get Mike Trout and the Angels are paying for half of his contract.

 

[Gson]

If they trade Lindor and Carrasco there will surely be at least one relief pitcher and probably more coming back. I can't see them keeping Plutko and Jefry Rodriguez, neither of whom has shown much. Rodriguez is 27 and Plutko 29 so what you see is what you get. Maton and Hill are probably on the bubble as well. All these guys are right-handers and the Indians need a lefty or two since they're fresh out with Hand and Perez gone.

CLEFO always seems to add in that extra guy.. an arm or a far off position player.. Why not an RP?

W/R to Jefry Rodriquez.. his command remains the reason why he hasn't established himself as a ML strarting pitcher.. He had a series of visits for rehabbing a shoulder.. and we all know shoulders are tricky... If Rodriquez is fully healthy.. and the alternate site hasn't been much help in defining or describing his status.. the 2021 season could become his break out as a ML reliever. He has the power arm.. limiting his pitch selection should help reduce the walks.. and he has a history of getting both RHH's and LHH's out.. That's what a ML reliever needs to do.. He should get a chance in 2021..

Thoughts?..

 

[sportscoach]

CLEFO always seems to add in that extra guy.. an arm or a far off position player.. Why not an RP?

W/R to Jefry Rodriquez.. his command remains the reason why he hasn't established himself as a ML strarting pitcher.. He had a series of visits for rehabbing a shoulder.. and we all know shoulders are tricky... If Rodriquez is fully healthy.. and the alternate site hasn't been much help in defining or describing his status.. the 2021 season could become his break out as a ML reliever. He has the power arm.. limiting his pitch selection should help reduce the walks.. and he has a history of getting both RHH's and LHH's out.. That's what a ML reliever needs to do.. He should get a chance in 2021..

Thoughts?..

I agree, I think Jefry will get this season to either prove himself as a starter or a bullpen arm. We dont know at the end of the day, where he is at when it comes to recovering from last season or anything like that. It felt like on the boards when we got him, we projected more of a reliever than a starter, but he hasn't done a bad job as a starter when healthy. My question isn't the talent with him, it's will he stay healthy?

 

[petes999]

I have been reading how we are going to trade the trifecta this winter (Lindor, Cookie and Ramirez). I also heard that due to excess talent next year Rule 5, that we will then trade talent and get someone like Miller to help in playoff chase. I can see Lindor and possibly Cookie being traded but not Ramirez. Why trade for talent and then trade talent for a better player which you already had? You will just end up losing a fan favorite in Ramirez (when he has a good contract) and losing talent on 40 man as you shuffle players in (before trading them out). We need Ramirez as a key 3-hole hitter as the experience mentor for the younger guys around him.

The two biggest needs (only needs) are OF and possibly C (the gap between 2022 and 23 when Perez and Hedges are FA and Naylor claims the throne - but Perez being 35 may re-sign as his mentor in the 23/24 transition phase).

You can get this value (for OF/C) in Lindor and plus more of depth with Cookie. The nice wants are 1B (over Bradley to push Naylor to OF) and Ace-2 (behind Bieber but we have McK and others waiting). Yet that near ready young stud like May is wishful thinking (teams don't trade usually even for Bauer and Clev).

Rodriquez role is the pen. RosterRes has him out of options next year. Thus, I am sure he is hoping for the expanded rosters or he maybe cut (would probably pass through waivers as no one has seen him lately). As for Loogies to replace Perez and Hand, we have Nelson and Gose (okay not the best). But, L Allen could go to pen as well as Scott, Moss and Hentges in AAA. You may want some of them to remain starters but where do they really fit with Bieber, Plesac, Civale, Quant, McK and Plutko/Cookie plus Allen ahead of them. I can see McK starting in AAA before being recalled (to limit innings for a full year). But, we have a full 10 starters without even trying to look down our depth chart. Hentges and Mejia will be out of options after next year, so we need to find who will transition and stack the pen.

 

[petes999]

For pitching, we have a wealth of riches .... even though it seems like our pen is lacking.

What to do with wealth of pitching?
Starters: Bieber (through 2024), Plesac, Civale, McK, Quant, L Allen and Cookie (that's 7) -- Who are you going to move out? Allen to pen? Probably. I can also see Cookie staying till trade deadline and McK starting in AAA (as I said to limit innings till June).

Near Ready: Moss, Hentges, Scott, Morgan, Mejia , Cantillo, Oviedo (so at least 7 waiting in AAA/AA

With Allen, Hentges, Mejia out of options after this year, Indians have to transition some of our starters to the pen (unless one of them is so good that they can push Quan, McK or Civale to the pen)

In our Pen in 2021: Kar, Clase, Whit (FA after 22), Hill, Maton, Nelson/Gose (loogy) (this is 6)

7th place competition: Plutko (not really a reliever though without extended roster), Rodriquez, Sandlin, and leftover starter (Allen, Quan, McK) ... my pick is Allen (with McK in AAA ready to get call up for sport start)

This is why I see Mejia and Hentges who are out of options after next year to at least sniff the pen next year to see if they can make the transition. If they can beat out one of our starters, then great (a starter moves into pen like Civale or Quantrill (again) or they will take over the Hill/Maton 5th/6th role during season. I think this is why Cimber was released. Plus, Humphries (now listed as our 30th prospect) has a floor in scouting reports of being a back-end reliever. With all his injuries (worse than McK without upside), I doubt he will see a role as starter.

So 2022
Starters - Bieber, Plesac, McK, Quan, Civale (cookie traded)
Relievers - Kar, Clase, Whit (last year before FA), Allen (also 1 opt left in 21), Hentges, Mejia (for top 6)
then pick 1 of (Hill, Maton, Nelson, Humphries, Sandlin) -- Rodriquez and Plutko will be long gone ...

AAA Starters -- Moss (last option), Cantillo, Scott, Morgan, .... (enough starters with AA - Hankins, Oviedo, Espino, Vargas to cover for injuries

Plus, your pen is now also set up so that Allen, Hentges and Mejia can do a pen day (2-3 inn each) if DH or if one of our starters is out for a brief period.

 

[sportscoach]

Carrasco i believe gets his 10/5 during this season (if I remember correctly) so its either trade him in the off season or not at all.

 

[mopete12]

Carrasco i believe gets his 10/5 during this season (if I remember correctly) so its either trade him in the off season or not at all.

You are correct. Baseball Reference shows him at 9.147 years of service time.