2020-21 Offseason Discussion

[DJTJ]

I’m very late to this.

Any Lindor trade that doesn’t include significant outfield prospects is a massive fail for me.

Our org depth is in middle infielders- I don’t need one for Lindor.

 

[sportscoach]

I’m very late to this.

Any Lindor trade that doesn’t include significant outfield prospects is a massive fail for me.

Our org depth is in middle infielders- I don’t need one for Lindor.

They are going to take the best offer available for Lindor talent wise. I dont disagree with the fact we do need a hitting OF prospect.

Also with the fact guys like Alex Gordon, Chisenhall, Mercado, Luplow, all were INF prospects at one point and went to the OF, says guys can move around. Miller is supposed to be a Ben Zobrist type of utility guy with a bat like Mark Loretta, its possible he ends up taking an OF instead of utility guy spot in due time. So its not like one of the INF prospects cannot move to the OF.

Also the Indians did try to add a veteran OF via trade last season, just got outbid. The Indians will try to add some type of talent to the OF, whether or not it comes in the Lindor trade will be seen.

This offseason should also have more non-tendered guys than normal, so the tier 2 guys will be deep which is always good for a smaller market team. We will add more talent to the OF, just in which way, I am unsure of at the moment. Also we do internally have Tom as well.

Guys liks DeShields and Zimmer, could be cut as well. So they will bring in more/other guys, but in what capacity will be hard to say since the Indians keep anything closed lipped.

@BimboColesHair do you know/can you guess what the organization is going to do with the OF?

 

[daddywags]

My current thinking is we should aim to add one major league veteran outfielder (preferably can play center) and one major league veteran middle infielder (second or short, could be Hernandez). The rest we can fill in with what we've got.

Renegotiate Santana or just let him see what's what in free agency.

Pick one of Perez or Hedges, trade the other (Yankees could use a good defensive catcher I think).

 

[Gson]

Wow, I didn't realize our hitters didn't take pre-game batting practice this year because of not enough veterans to drag them out there. By all means, let's find another Jason Giambi or Jose Uribe and sign him ASAP.

Speaking of batting practice, now that the season is over and Naquin is healthy and won't have to spend six months rehabbing and five more sitting around waiting for a short "spring" training I'm optimistic he'll bounce back to his 2019 form next year. It was a lost season for Tyler as he hit .218 and had 3 hits in his last 12 games including the playoffs; all singles. He ended the year 3-for-41. For the season he chased over 40% of pitches outside the strike zone which put him near the top (bottom?) of baseball in that category. He was his own worst enemy.

But he won't be 30 until next April so he should still be at the top of his game and capable of hitting when he gets regular playing time. In the two years where he got between 270-320 at-bats he hit .296/.886 and .288/.792. When he stays healthy and plays every day against RHP's he hits. We need to see that player next year and we just might since he'll be working out and hitting instead of rehabbing his knee.

DeShields is a .250 singles hitter who has no arm and misreads fly balls too often. I'm ready to move on and let Mercado and Daniel Johnson split the center field duties. Let's find out whether these guys can play once and for all. Mercado is very good defensively and hit 15 HR's in 438 AB's last year with a .269 average. If he can replicate those numbers along with his speed on the bases and defense that would be great.

I'm also ready to give Jordan Luplow a chance to play every day. Yeah, he hit .192 in 78 at-bats, but he came on strong at the end, hitting .313/.983 in September in addition to his huge two-out RBI double off a right-handed pitcher in the playoffs. Put him in left, Naquin in right, and Mercado/Johnson in center. Zimmer needed a year in Columbus this year and didn't get it; I'd give it to him next year if he's not out of options. But TBH I don't think he'll ever hit up here.

If Santana returns they could platoon Luplow and Naylor in left.

There are two other options I like which are not too crazy and would add offense to the outfield. One is moving Reyes to right field. That was supposed to be the plan this year but the short spring training combined with Reyes having to quarantine the first week ended that. I wouldn't mind seeing the Indians trade for a bat that is blocked on another team, like Miguel Andujar of the Yankees. Andujar is 25 and was their third baseman in 2018 when he hit .297/.855 in nearly 600 at-bats. He got hurt after 12 games in 2019 and the Yankees turned to Gio Urshela, who's been playing at an All-Star level both offensively and defensively. Andujar is a bad defensive third baseman from what I hear and he's blocked by Urshela. He only got 62 at-bats this year and didn't play against the Indians.

I would trade for Andujar and put him at DH, moving Reyes to right field. In that case Naquin and Luplow would platoon in left with Naylor moving to first base.

Another internal option is to move Jose Ramirez to left field and install Nolan Jones at third base. Ramirez played left field part-time in 2016 when we had Juan Uribe. That year Jose had 163 at-bats in left field and hit .331/.890, which is higher than he hit as a third baseman that year. My theory is that moving an infielder to the outfield improves his hitting because it's a less demanding defensive position and he can focus more on hitting. Exhibit A is Lonnie Chisenhall.

Can you imagine a better hitting Jose Ramirez?

So there are a lot of internal options. I would love to get a bat like Andujar's and put him at DH with the ability to fill in at 3rd base to give Hosey a rest occasionally. Reyes wants to play outfield and he may hit better if he's more involved in the game. I thought about Clint Frazier but Brett Gardner is 37 and I imagine Frazier is the heir apparent in left field for the Yankees and may not be available.

If we got Andujar we could still put Jones at third, Hosey in left, Reyes in right, and Andujar at DH. Naylor plays first, Johnson and Mercado battle it out in center, and Luplow is the 5th outfielder. Naquin would be the odd man out.

The NYY's OF heirarchy, as of now is:
Judge
Stanton
Hicks
Gardner
Tauchman
then
Frazier

As far as future OF'ers, the NYY's are still holding Estevan Florial as their "near" future CF'er with Jasson Dominguez as a deeper future OF'er.. Clint Frazier's chance to be a significant factor in the Yankee outfield.. hasn't materialized to the degree he might want.. If there is a bat that the Indians can acquire from the Yankees.. Frazier would be a starting point.. and his defense is at least adequate..

Thoughts?.

Edit: I forgot to mention, that, i.m.h.o., Kevin Alcantara is the deepest of the yankee prospect OF'ers and could be the kind of guy that would rocket through the Indians minor league system..

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

The NYY's OF heirarchy, as of now is:
Judge
Stanton
Hicks
Gardner
Tauchman
then
Frazier

As far as future OF'ers, the NYY's are still holding Estevan Florial as their "near" future CF'er with Jasson Dominguez as a deeper future OF'er.. Clint Frazier's chance to be a significant factor in the Yankee outfield.. hasn't materialized to the degree he might want.. If there is a bat that the Indians can acquire from the Yankees.. Frazier would be a starting point.. and his defense is at least adequate..

Thoughts?.

Edit: I forgot to mention, that, i.m.h.o., Kevin Alcantara is the deepest of the yankee prospect OF'ers and could be the kind of guy that would rocket through the Indians minor league system..

OK, then Frazier is fine as a trade target. He fits the bill in terms of a young (26), affordable player with years of control who is just approaching his prime and who is blocked with his current team so can be acquired at a reasonable price. He has also demonstrated the ability to hit at the major league level. He would be a nice addition to the worst outfield in baseball except for the Pirates.

I see Frazier and Andujar as similar to other players the Tribe has traded for like Naylor, Reyes, and Bauers, except Frazier and Andujar had more major league success than the others, who just had a brief taste of the majors when the Indians traded for them.

If not the Yankees there may be other young outfielders that are blocked that the Indians can target. Or they could take the view that 2020 was an aberration and stay in house, expecting Naquin and Mercado to return to their 2019 levels of production and that Luplow and/or Johnson can step up.

 

[Kiddo]

Is a trade with the Yankees for Frazier, Andujar and a couple prospects enough? The offense could be very young but a lot of offensive potential.

1B - Naylor
DH - Reyes
3B/LF - Andujar/Jones
2B - Jose
RF - Frazier
CF - Johnson
C -Perez
SS - Chang/Miller/Free Agent

 

[DCTribefan]

Is a trade with the Yankees for Frazier, Andujar and a couple prospects enough? The offense could be very young but a lot of offensive potential.

1B - Naylor
DH - Reyes
3B/LF - Andujar/Jones
2B - Jose
RF - Frazier
CF - Johnson
C -Perez
SS - Chang/Miller/Free Agent

Sorry but that lineup scares no one except Tribe fans.

 

[Gson]

Is a trade with the Yankees for Frazier, Andujar and a couple prospects enough? The offense could be very young but a lot of offensive potential.

1B - Naylor
DH - Reyes
3B/LF - Andujar/Jones
2B - Jose
RF - Frazier
CF - Johnson
C -Perez
SS - Chang/Miller/Free Agent

Both Miguel Andujar and Clint Frazier would solve a LOT of the RHH problems the Indians lineup has.. The additional prospects would benefit the Indians chances to continue contention into the coming two to five years. Make no mistake.. losing Lindor while replacing him with Chang or a FA (unknown: Andrellton Simmons, DiDi Gregorius, other) could fill up to about three fourths of what Lindor brings.. So, in the short term, the likelihood is the Indians would be a poorer team.. Of course, that's speculative.. If the Indians get the best of Frazier/Andujar (Frazier .265/.395/.905 & Andujar .295/.330/.855), then this would be a lineup that anyone who knows baseball, would fear.. We've seen some pretty bad defense from guys who have a reputation for being good with the glove. More of the same, but with significant power and production on the offensive side of the ball would allay some of that concern.. Both of these guys would be under team control for years, as well...

The prospects would then represent gravy.. but, very important to the Indians future. Afterall, if the Indians can't extract a penalty from the NYY's, then don't make a deal..

Thoughts?..

 

[Kiddo]

Sorry but that lineup scares no one except Tribe fans.

I guess we could always go with Naquin, Zimmer, Deshields and Mercado again in the outfield

 

[DCTribefan]

OK, then Frazier is fine as a trade target. He fits the bill in terms of a young (26), affordable player with years of control who is just approaching his prime and who is blocked with his current team so can be acquired at a reasonable price. He has also demonstrated the ability to hit at the major league level. He would be a nice addition to the worst outfield in baseball except for the Pirates.

I see Frazier and Andujar as similar to other players the Tribe has traded for like Naylor, Reyes, and Bauers, except Frazier and Andujar had more major league success than the others, who just had a brief taste of the majors when the Indians traded for them.

If not the Yankees there may be other young outfielders that are blocked that the Indians can target. Or they could take the view that 2020 was an aberration and stay in house, expecting Naquin and Mercado to return to their 2019 levels of production and that Luplow and/or Johnson can step up.

Relying on Naquin and Mercado to bounce back is a recipe for a third place division finish.

I guess we could always go with Naquin, Zimmer, Deshields and Mercado again in the outfield

Shouldn’t the objective of any trade be to improve the team. Your earlier proposals don’t meet that litmus test, IMO.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Relying on Naquin and Mercado to bounce back is a recipe for a third place division finish.
Shouldn’t the objective of any trade be to improve the team. Your earlier proposals don’t meet that litmus test, IMO.

In 2019 (not that long ago) Naquin hit .288/.792 in 274 at-bats before blowing out his knee on July 30. He spent the off-season rehabbing and was just getting to where he could start running the bases when spring training was cancelled before he played in any games. Then he had another 3+ months off before the three-week training camp in July. So Naquin was away from facing any live pitching for about 11 months, then had three weeks to get ready for this season.

AFAIC, he gets a mulligan.

Now, given that he is healthy and can do baseball training instead of knee rehabbing this off-season, and hopefully given a full spring training, is it likely that he'll hit at his 2019 level? Or is a repeat of 2020 more likely when he hit .218 in half as many at-bats?

Mercado is hard to project because he fell so far this year with a .128 BA in 86 at-bats. There was no apparent reason why his offense should fall apart so completely; unlike Naquin he wasn't rehabbing and did not miss the abbreviated spring training. I would let him and Johnson compete for the center field job and maybe start out platooning them until one or the other emerges as clearly the best.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Both Miguel Andujar and Clint Frazier would solve a LOT of the RHH problems the Indians lineup has..If the Indians get the best of Frazier/Andujar (Frazier .265/.395/.905 & Andujar .295/.330/.855), then this would be a lineup that anyone who knows baseball, would fear.. We've seen some pretty bad defense from guys who have a reputation for being good with the glove. More of the same, but with significant power and production on the offensive side of the ball would allay some of that concern.. Both of these guys would be under team control for years, as well...

Both Frazier and Andujar have a bad reputation with the glove which is why I would try to acquire one of them and make him the DH while moving Reyes to right field. Reyes in right was the plan this year that got derailed when the virus ended spring training and shortened the season. Reyes was a decent right fielder in San Diego and if he is more involved in the game he might hit better.

At age 23 in 2018 Andujar hit .297/.855 with 27 home runs in 573 at-bats. Due to the astonishing emergence of Urshela as an All-Star caliber third baseman with both glove and bat as well as the presence of Giancarlo Stanton at DH, the Yankees have nowhere to play Andujar. We should jump all over this guy, who would fit right in as a DH and could spell Hosey from time to time and let him DH for a day.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

The NYY's OF heirarchy, as of now is:
Judge
Stanton
Hicks
Gardner
Tauchman
then
Frazier

Gardner is 37 years old and hit .223 this year. Tauchman will turn 30 in two months and has 476 career big league plate appearances with a line of .251/.759. Frazier is behind THESE guys?

Maybe you know something I don't but I would not trade a 26-year-old with Frazier's history and potential because I was happy with Gardner and Tauchman.

 

[sportscoach]

Gardner is 37 years old and hit .223 this year. Tauchman will turn 30 in two months and has 476 career big league plate appearances with a line of .251/.759. Frazier is behind THESE guys?

Maybe you know something I don't but I would not trade a 26-year-old with Frazier's history and potential because I was happy with Gardner and Tauchman.

Short term, yes, but i doubt it long term to be honest. I think Gardners a free agent at the end of the season

 

[DCTribefan]

Both Frazier and Andujar have a bad reputation with the glove which is why I would try to acquire one of them and make him the DH while moving Reyes to right field. Reyes in right was the plan this year that got derailed when the virus ended spring training and shortened the season. Reyes was a decent right fielder in San Diego and if he is more involved in the game he might hit better.

At age 23 in 2018 Andujar hit .297/.855 with 27 home runs in 573 at-bats. Due to the astonishing emergence of Urshela as an All-Star caliber third baseman with both glove and bat as well as the presence of Giancarlo Stanton at DH, the Yankees have nowhere to play Andujar. We should jump all over this guy, who would fit right in as a DH and could spell Hosey from time to time and let him DH for a day.

You’re not even worried about Andujar’s injury history?

That may still prove to be the case, but Andujar will have to wait until 2020 to showcase the extra-base thump of which the Yankees have been dreaming. Andujar has elected for right shoulder labrum repair surgery, the Yankees announced on Wednesday......

So Andujar spent the fall and winter not only rehabilitating the injured labrum in his right shoulder but also working with a private trainer here in Tampa to improve his agility so he could handle third and first base, and left field. (He had also worked the previous winter and spring to better his shaky defense at third base.)