2020-21 Offseason Discussion

[DCTribefan]

I don’t think their is anyway you trade Bieber. We have 4 years of control for a 25 year old pitcher about to win the CY Young. I am not even sure what return you could get that would make the trade worth while. Also from a pure marketing standpoint he is loved, and I think a lot of fans would be turned off even more of a guy like him is moved. If anything he is the type of guy you try to get to sign an extension now to cover the arbitration years and maybe the 1st year of FA for him.

Agree that trading Bieber now is nonsensical.

 

[avs2000]

Trading arguably your two best players is the example.. and yes, the odds on making the playoffs do take a hit.. especially considering the replacement for either or both are so significantly less.

Of course.. what returns could mitigate that hit on the odds of making the playoffs.. moreso after the 2021 season as Lindor would be gone by then..

Good response..

No choice with lindor. No reason to trade ramirez maybe before his last contract year

 

[sportscoach]

Um maybe because Naylor had more extra base hits in two post season games than Roberto had in all of the 2020 season. Both Naquin and DeShields got progressively worse as the season wore on. Also disagree on trading Jose. I think tribe should follow White Sox blueprint. They surrounded Abreu with young talent and after 1.5 down seasons, their future looks really bright.

Look at DeShields batting average and the fact he actually hit above .200 and hit near his career average. I dont think DeShields was an actual issue, he did what exactly we knew he would. He wasn't supposed to be our starter, but the only one in the OF who actually at least produced to his career levels. Why cut the guy who actually had some production?

Naquin was coming off of an injury with no spring training. I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt and either way he is under team control for 21 and 22. Why get rid of him when a veteran signed in free agency with the same production will cost you more than he would?

White Soxs also extended Abreu essentially twice. Abreu has a completely different clubhouse presence than Jose does as well. We arent extending Jose and Jose is a sparkplug type of guy, not a clubhouse leader. EE was the guy who helped JRam get over the hump and become who he is.

I am not saying trade JRam just because, but if we get a major haul, then we need to move him is what i am stating. We need to build a new nucleus and trading Lindor and JRam will give us a ton of talent to add to the current group, to find that nucleus.

 

[sportscoach]

If you're going to give up on 2021+'22 you might as well trade Bieber, too, because he'll be in his second year of arbitration by 2023.

With the freed up money, you actually extend Bieber now like we did with Kluber and Carrasco.

You have control of the starting pitching for years, but you lack the bats right now. Trading Lindor and JRam will give you a ton of prospects that can in due time become legit players. I just feel if we arent going to be a playoff team in 21, get the max value so we can retool way quicker.

 

[daddywags]

With the freed up money, you actually extend Bieber now like we did with Kluber and Carrasco.

You have control of the starting pitching for years, but you lack the bats right now. Trading Lindor and JRam will give you a ton of prospects that can in due time become legit players. I just feel if we arent going to be a playoff team in 21, get the max value so we can retool way quicker.

Maybe on Bieber, although with an extension, as with arbitration, the big money comes due later and the Indians tend to work on a year-to-year budget for salaries. As for competing in 2021 my view is that with our pitching and ability to add by trading Lindor and maybe Hand there's no reason we shouldn't compete for the playoffs.

 

[xmasbuck]

I said Lindor doesn't contribute anything to the team? He's a good player. Much better than whoever will be there next year even without his full attention. Trading Lindor will definitely make the team worse. But he's not going to stay here, so he's got to go anyway.

yes, we will be worse without lindor next season - i assume he gets traded because the club doesnt have the cash to pay him for one more year - and i expect what we get in return will be less than fans are (always) expecting - btw, as veducci points out correa, baez, saeger and story are, like lindor, one year away from fa - the f.o. aint gonna be able to enter a scarce goods market

 

[Urban]

JD Davis is a really nice bat and I've been an advocate in trading for Nimmo and Dom Smith in the past.

But I have significantly less interest, with the exception of Dom Smith, if they're being added to a Lindor-less Indians roster. Would rather swing for the fences with prospects or younger-budding stars with 5+ years of control a la an Alex Verdugo in the Mookie Betts trade.

 

[sportscoach]

Maybe on Bieber, although with an extension, as with arbitration, the big money comes due later and the Indians tend to work on a year-to-year budget for salaries. As for competing in 2021 my view is that with our pitching and ability to add by trading Lindor and maybe Hand there's no reason we shouldn't compete for the playoffs.

We signed a lot of players over the years to extensions early. It is part of how the Indians operate so an extension for Bieber will be in the talks before his first arbitration season. I expect at least the start of the dialog of an extension with Bieber.

We cannot win the Division next season over the white soxs who have the ability to add payroll plus the development of the talent from this season. At best we are wild card with JRam and Lindor.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

The Browns decided to blow it up and maximize their cap space and future draft picks. The result were records of 1-15 and 0-16. The owners later admitted it was a mistake and they would never do that again to the fans.

The Indians have never taken that path, preferring to trade good players with one year left and try to keep a steady stream of prospects arriving in the bigs to keep the winning seasons going. It's working really well. They have the best won/loss record in baseball the last five years if I'm not mistaken.

Lately they've been more aggressive, if that's the right word, trading Bauer with 1.5 years and Clevinger with 2.5 years left on their contracts. But I can't see them even considering trading Bieber or Ramirez. Hosey brings a tremendous amount of value not only with his bat, glove and base running but with his attitude and infectious enthusiasm. Just seeing him prowling the dugout screaming and jacking guys up was awesome. He's a tremendous role model in addition to his talent. He's worth a lot more than they're paying him and is in the prime of his career.

I expect them to continue with business as usual. Lindor will be traded for a package similar to what they got for Clevinger; a couple of young guys just arriving in the bigs who are blocked on their current teams (like Naylor and Quantrill) and a couple of prospects. That was similar to the Bauer deal where they got Reyes and prospects.

They already shed some payroll with the Clevinger deal. Trading Lindor sheds a lot more and so does declining Santana's option. With Karinchak having a mostly successful rookie year and Clase coming on board I think they'll let Hand walk. I don't know if they'll risk having to pay him $10 million if nobody will take on that contract, but they know better than me if any team will give them something of value.

Hernandez is well worth the $6 million he played for this year but my guess is they go cheap and let him walk. Perez is a bargain when you factor in his defense.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

We cannot win the Division next season over the white soxs who have the ability to add payroll plus the development of the talent from this season. At best we are wild card with JRam and Lindor.

Baseball is far too unpredictable for a statement like that. The Sox would be favored over us, but it absolutely is possible for us to win the division if -- for example -- our hitters are as far above their projected performance next year as they were below it this year. Or the Sox could lose a couple key players to injury, bad seasons...whatever.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

The Browns decided to blow it up and maximize their cap space and future draft picks. The result were records of 1-15 and 0-16. The owners later admitted it was a mistake and they would never do that again to the fans.

The Indians have never taken that path, preferring to trade good players with one year left and try to keep a steady stream of prospects arriving in the bigs to keep the winning seasons going. It's working really well. They have the best won/loss record in baseball the last five years if I'm not mistaken.

Lately they've been more aggressive, if that's the right word, trading Bauer with 1.5 years and Clevinger with 2.5 years left on their contracts. But I can't see them even considering trading Bieber or Ramirez. Hosey brings a tremendous amount of value not only with his bat, glove and base running but with his attitude and infectious enthusiasm. Just seeing him prowling the dugout screaming and jacking guys up was awesome. He's a tremendous role model in addition to his talent. He's worth a lot more than they're paying him and is in the prime of his career.

I expect them to continue with business as usual. Lindor will be traded for a package similar to what they got for Clevinger; a couple of young guys just arriving in the bigs who are blocked on their current teams (like Naylor and Quantrill) and a couple of prospects. That was similar to the Bauer deal where they got Reyes and prospects.

They already shed some payroll with the Clevinger deal. Trading Lindor sheds a lot more and so does declining Santana's option. With Karinchak having a mostly successful rookie year and Clase coming on board I think they'll let Hand walk. I don't know if they'll risk having to pay him $10 million if nobody will take on that contract, but they know better than me if any team will give them something of value.

Hernandez is well worth the $6 million he played for this year but my guess is they go cheap and let him walk. Perez is a bargain when you factor in his defense.

Retaining Hernandez is one of those things I'd consider a priority. He's simply a reliable pro unlikely to be prohibitively expensive.

 

[CBBI]

Retaining Hernandez is one of those things I'd consider a priority. He's simply a reliable pro unlikely to be prohibitively expensive.

I would be surprised if they retained Hernandez.

He played well enough to be justified in asking for a raise off last year's salary, but it was also his best season in three years and was propped up by a career-best BABIP.

He's very likely due for a regression and he's probably going to ask for more money than he made this year. Not a great combo.

 

[daddywags]

I think it's reasonable to ask what kind of money will be out there this winter for guys like Hernandez. He didn't hit the multi-year contract jackpot last year and I have to think free agency dollars will be scarce this winter.

 

[CDAV45]

I would be surprised if they retained Hernandez.

He played well enough to be justified in asking for a raise off last year's salary, but it was also his best season in three years and was propped up by a career-best BABIP.

He's very likely due for a regression and he's probably going to ask for more money than he made this year. Not a great combo.

I certainly wouldn't be opposed to retaining Hernandez, but we're talking about a MIF rich system. I guess it depends on how they feel about guys like Miller, Chang, and T. Freeman. That money may be better spent on something else.

 

[sportscoach]

Baseball is far too unpredictable for a statement like that. The Sox would be favored over us, but it absolutely is possible for us to win the division if -- for example -- our hitters are as far above their projected performance next year as they were below it this year. Or the Sox could lose a couple key players to injury, bad seasons...whatever.

You arent wrong, but I have a hunch that the White Soxs will be the team to beat in the AL next year. I stated years ago the White Soxs would be a team to beat in 21 and right now on paper, the only advantage we have over the White Soxs, is our starting staff and JRam. The White Soxs right now on paper win almost every other position on the board.

I personally cannot see us winning the division with so many unproven players and no veteran leaders from the players side within the clubhouse. With Lindor and JRam, and guys having solid seasons, right now I would say Wild Card at best. Our division will be tougher next season than it was this year. Actually to be honest by 22, it may be the toughest overall division baseball has ever seen. There is a high probability that all the teams in the division in 22 have a shot to win the division based off of projections.

Either way, JRam isn't the same as Abreu when it comes to building around. JRam is a sparkplug, not a leader like Abreu is. Teams built around a sparkplug usually flop. We lost too many leaders and too many veterans in the last few years. The clubhouse wasn't very good this season and with or without Francona, in my mind we lacked the right mix of veterans and younger players.

We have the possibility of being better than the 95 Braves when it comes to pitching. The talent and potential is there. Unless we add in the right veterans to mix with the young guys. Lindor struggled to lead on his own and losing him makes an even worse void in that department. The clubhouse just felt off to me, we badly underachieved this season and my opinion it is because of the rift in the clubhouse before the incident with Clev and Plesac.