2020 NBA Draft

[MirORich]

Let’s not get too carried away in comparisons

Ie : LaMelo to Rubio
Okoro to MKG
Vassell to Evan Turner(admittedly I’m the only ones who pushed that)

I recognize the concerns about what Okoro’s offensive floor and ceiling are but when I watch him, I see someone further along offensively on a number of different levels than MKG at the same time in his career.

 

[Nathan S]

Let’s not get too carried away in comparisons

Ie : LaMelo to Rubio
Okoro to MKG
Vassell to Evan Turner(admittedly I’m the only ones who pushed that)

I recognize the concerns about what Okoro’s offensive floor and ceiling are but when I watch him, I see someone further along offensively on a number of different levels than MKG at the same time in his career.

How so? MKG was All-American 2nd team. He had games like 24/19 vs Louisville, and then 24/10 vs Indiana in the tournament. Everyone treats him like he was a scrub in hindsight, but college MKG was really really good. If Okoro were substantially better than him he'd probably be the clear #1 pick.

 

[daddywags]

Is Okoro really that much bigger than Porter Jr., whose natural position seems to be guard? Porter measured 6'5.5" and 212 lbs with a 6'9" wing span at the combine last year. Okoro is listed (I've seen) as 6'6" 220 lbs with a 6'8.5" wing span.

 

[MirORich]

How so? MKG was All-American 2nd team. He had games like 24/19 vs Louisville, and then 24/10 vs Indiana in the tournament. Everyone treats him like he was a scrub in hindsight, but college MKG was really really good. If Okoro were substantially better than him he'd probably be the clear #1 pick.

Not sure how the rebounds factor into it when I was specific in the offensive comparison. No doubt MKG was a great HS and college player. I didn’t question his college impact overall. Nor did I say Okoro had a better college career than MKG. I said their are some elements of offensive game like dribble, playmaking, purer shooting form(lesser of two evils admittedly) that give me hope that Okoro would advance as an offensive player in the NBA further than MKG has. I think Okoro has better offensive tools to build from.

I also thought At the time that MKG was overdrafted by CHA as a result of Michael getting sucked into his story and how hard of a worker he was. I did not think he should be the #3 pick then.

Lastly, I’m not even advocating for Okoro at 4. I just think he can and will be a better offensive player in the NBA then MKG

 

[Nathan S]

Not sure how the rebounds factor into it when I was specific in the offensive comparison. No doubt MKG was a great HS and college player. I didn’t question his college impact overall. Nor did I say Okoro had a better college career than MKG. I said their are some elements of offensive game like dribble, playmaking, purer shooting form(lesser of two evils admittedly) that give me hope that Okoro would advance as an offensive player in the NBA further than MKG has. I think Okoro has better offensive tools to build from.

I also thought At the time that MKG was overdrafted by CHA as a result of Michael getting sucked into his story and how hard of a worker he was. I did not think he should be the #3 pick then.

Lastly, I’m not even advocating for Okoro at 4. I just think he can and will be a better offensive player in the NBA then MKG

Offensive rebounds should certainly factor into it (MKG had 6 in both of those game), especially since both players are at their best around the rim. Maybe Okoro is slightly better on the perimeter, and MKG slightly better in the paint?

My point, though, is that guys like MKG/Rubio/Turner weren't actually "bad" prospects, IMO. Not all good prospects pan out. Even if everyone agreed that Okoro/Ball/Vassell are similar to MKG/Rubio/Turner at the same stage in their career, that shouldn't in any way imply that they'll follow the same trajectory.

 

[MirORich]

Offensive rebounds should certainly factor into it (MKG had 6 in both of those game), especially since both players are at their best around the rim. Maybe Okoro is slightly better on the perimeter, and MKG slightly better in the paint?

My point, though, is that guys like MKG/Rubio/Turner weren't actually "bad" prospects, IMO. Not all good prospects pan out. Even if everyone agreed that Okoro/Ball/Vassell are similar to MKG/Rubio/Turner at the same stage in their career, that shouldn't in any way imply that they'll follow the same trajectory.

Fair enough. I like comps for illumination. I don’t like comps when they become soundbites to justify not taking a player. So I guess I was over reacting to post that seemed to imply Okoro would have a similar offensive game in the NBA as MKG and therefore should not be considered at 4.

 

[Nathan S]

Fair enough. I like comps for illumination. I don’t like comps when they become soundbites to justify not taking a player. So I guess I was over reacting to post that seemed to imply Okoro would have a similar offensive game in the NBA as MKG and therefore should not be considered at 4.

Yeah, sorry, that's not what I was meaning to imply. Comps can only do so much because all these guys are so early in their development, and every player develops differently.

 

[cabs]

At the moment players I would be happy with: Okoro, Vassell, Okongwu, Avdija
unhappy with: Toppin, Haliburton, Hampton

 

[DrSmoov]

Why would we not try and trade a Sexton or Garland with Love package and take Hayes?

 

[Los216]

Why are people so sucked into drafting projects so high? Can we for once take the guys who have a good floor and high ceiling? Stop drafting guys who’s success depend heavily on them overcoming critical deficiencies.

No more guys who can’t shoot. No more guys who are undersized. No more guys who aren’t versatile. Please. Just draft the players who are already good and have potential. Why are we entertains players who have to have several things go their way just for them to be close to what their potential is?

James Wiseman at worst is gonna be a defensive big that can bully guys on offense. He can step out to 15 feet without being a liability.

Deny already has a solid floor game. He doesn’t need to learn how to play the right way which is a phrase I hate but he doesn’t need to learn that. He already plays with pros. He has more film on him against better competition than any other top prospect in this draft. Where his weaknesses are like shooting aren’t a liability because he’s a well rounded player who isn’t going to shoot himself out of the equation. This is where his experience comes in handy. He knows where his shooting stands and he knows how to play and still have an impact. That’s a player who already has a good floor and has very high potential.

Some of these other prospects are either undersized for their primary positions which Wiseman and Deny are not. They have extreme deficiencies and not enough experience to backup the motion that they will be able to shake them. They have low ceilings compared to Wiseman and Deny.

It’s a two man race between Wiseman and Deny if you’re the Cavs. If they have any other prospects rated higher they are once again talking themselves into players that have too many things that need to fall their way as opposed to the guys who are already solid.

Sitting at #5 there’s no excuse for us to not walk away from this draft with Wiseman or Deny. None. I’m over the projects. Draft Wiseman or Deny. Trade up if you have to and get rid of the dead weight on the roster and get some decent vets with playoffs experience and defined roles.

Stop dragging this “tank” out longer than it should be. As far as I’m concerned The Cavs aren’t tanking anymore. We should be doing whatever we can to try and win. Not do a semi tank job with no clear end in sight.

 

[MirORich]

Why are people so sucked into drafting projects so high? Can we for once take the guys who have a good floor and high ceiling? Stop drafting guys who’s success depend heavily on them overcoming critical deficiencies.

No more guys who can’t shoot. No more guys who are undersized. No more guys who aren’t versatile. Please. Just draft the players who are already good and have potential. Why are we entertains players who have to have several things go their way just for them to be close to what their potential is?

James Wiseman at worst is gonna be a defensive big that can bully guys on offense. He can step out to 15 feet without being a liability.

Deny already has a solid floor game. He doesn’t need to learn how to play the right way which is a phrase I hate but he doesn’t need to learn that. He already plays with pros. He has more film on him against better competition than any other top prospect in this draft. Where his weaknesses are like shooting aren’t a liability because he’s a well rounded player who isn’t going to shoot himself out of the equation. This is where his experience comes in handy. He knows where his shooting stands and he knows how to play and still have an impact. That’s a player who already has a good floor and has very high potential.

Some of these other prospects are either undersized for their primary positions which Wiseman and Deny are not. They have extreme deficiencies and not enough experience to backup the motion that they will be able to shake them. They have low ceilings compared to Wiseman and Deny.

It’s a two man race between Wiseman and Deny if you’re the Cavs. If they have any other prospects rated higher they are once again talking themselves into players that have too many things that need to fall their way as opposed to the guys who are already solid.

Sitting at #5 there’s no excuse for us to not walk away from this draft with Wiseman or Deny. None. I’m over the projects. Draft Wiseman or Deny. Trade up if you have to and get rid of the dead weight on the roster and get some decent vets with playoffs experience and defined roles.

Stop dragging this “tank” out longer than it should be. As far as I’m concerned The Cavs aren’t tanking anymore. We should be doing whatever we can to try and win. Not do a semi tank job with no clear end in sight.

I think you are too high on Deni.

I *might* be comfortable taking him at 5.

Definitely would not trade up for him.

Wiseman or Ball I would try and trade up to #3 for if they were there.

 

[Los216]

I think you are too high on Deni.

I *might* be comfortable taking him at 5.

Definitely would not trade up for him.

Wiseman or Ball I would try and trade up to #3 for if they were there.

Deni is the most seasoned prospect at the top of this draft. He’s a legit wing. No questions about his size, strength, and athleticism. He has a good floor game. Who are the players in this draft that you feel more comfortable taking at #5?

Who is in the top 10 that’s ready to play from day one? Deni is a day one starter.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Here is my glass half full pitch on Okoro........if you are someone who believes in drafting a guy for what he does, not what he does not

• Physically, he is ready to play immediately
• He pairs well defensively with Sexton and Garland
• While not a volume scorer, he is a very efficient scorer on the wing (1.48 PPFGA)
• His efficiency is buoyed by a plus FTR on a per FGA and per 2PFGA basis
• He is an elite finisher at the rim (70+% on almost 100 college attempts)
• High IQ player......he does a lot of winning things analytics can't track

Certainly, the question is his shot.......he posted moderately better results in EYBL (31%) but it's a tough call. If you think you can fix his shot, I see his value........if you can't, he's just not worth drafting over guys like Deni, Vassell, etc.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Why are people so sucked into drafting projects so high? Can we for once take the guys who have a good floor and high ceiling? Stop drafting guys who’s success depend heavily on them overcoming critical deficiencies.

No more guys who can’t shoot. No more guys who are undersized. No more guys who aren’t versatile. Please. Just draft the players who are already good and have potential. Why are we entertains players who have to have several things go their way just for them to be close to what their potential is?

James Wiseman at worst is gonna be a defensive big that can bully guys on offense. He can step out to 15 feet without being a liability.

Deny already has a solid floor game. He doesn’t need to learn how to play the right way which is a phrase I hate but he doesn’t need to learn that. He already plays with pros. He has more film on him against better competition than any other top prospect in this draft. Where his weaknesses are like shooting aren’t a liability because he’s a well rounded player who isn’t going to shoot himself out of the equation. This is where his experience comes in handy. He knows where his shooting stands and he knows how to play and still have an impact. That’s a player who already has a good floor and has very high potential.

Some of these other prospects are either undersized for their primary positions which Wiseman and Deny are not. They have extreme deficiencies and not enough experience to backup the motion that they will be able to shake them. They have low ceilings compared to Wiseman and Deny.

It’s a two man race between Wiseman and Deny if you’re the Cavs. If they have any other prospects rated higher they are once again talking themselves into players that have too many things that need to fall their way as opposed to the guys who are already solid.

Sitting at #5 there’s no excuse for us to not walk away from this draft with Wiseman or Deny. None. I’m over the projects. Draft Wiseman or Deny. Trade up if you have to and get rid of the dead weight on the roster and get some decent vets with playoffs experience and defined roles.

Stop dragging this “tank” out longer than it should be. As far as I’m concerned The Cavs aren’t tanking anymore. We should be doing whatever we can to try and win. Not do a semi tank job with no clear end in sight.

My problem with Deni, is he seems like a 4 to me.........but how do we get him minutes if he is? Love can't play the 5 and I think Deni is going to get beat up at the 3, especially against the top wings. I think there is an immediate path to success as a point forward type 4.......where his floor and dribble game becomes a plus skill vs a potentially average one at the 3. But to me, Deni is a project if you want to play him at the 3. He's going to need a lot of development there IMO.

That is inherently the problem with this draft.......is it is a lot of players that, quite honestly, are not ready to play or are unknown. The only guys I am confident can be inserted in to a rotation and not be a disaster are Okungwu, Vassell and Haliburton. Everyone else, who knows.

 

[Nathan S]

Deni is the most seasoned prospect at the top of this draft. He’s a legit wing. No questions about his size, strength, and athleticism. He has a good floor game. Who are the players in this draft that you feel more comfortable taking at #5?

Who is in the top 10 that’s ready to play from day one? Deni is a day one starter.

I get the argument for Deni's high floor (and I agree with it). But what's the argument for his high ceiling? Solid, experienced, well-rounded, versatile...these are all good adjectives for him. But where's the star potential? He doesn't have any outlier skills offensively, and while he's a good athlete it's not like he's a freak by NBA standards or anything. Seems like a roleplayer through and through.