2020 Offseason

Do Not Sell My Personal Information

6.19.2016

In the Rotation
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Messages
2,096
Reaction score
971
Points
113
My suspicion is that Love plays out this contract and signs another to finish his career with the Cavs. If he plays six more solid seasons here he could end up as the franchise leader in rebounds and 3-pointers, and second in all time points. Jersey then hangs in the rafters.

He should be pretty close to jersey retirement as it is; he is as deserving as Z is, at least, I think - better per-season even though less wine-and-gold body of work so far.

The question will be where he stands on greatest Cavs all-time. I still have to put Kyrie #2 after Bron; Love certainly is in the same ballpark as Nance Sr/Daugherty/Price when you look at the per-season stats.
 

cabs

NBA Starter
Joined
Jan 3, 2018
Messages
2,407
Reaction score
2,619
Points
113
28% of getting pick 5 again, the season ended at the perfect time for us. A day more or a day less and we would have probably had worse position
 

Derek

1 by land, 2 by sea, 3 Baerga
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
14,439
Reaction score
19,872
Points
123
The salary cap will almost certainly go down. Drummond will pick up his $28 million option. Love will make $31 million next season. Even with TT and Delly leaving the Cavs could be close to the new salary cap.
Hard to say what would be available for FA.

If it's true that the Cavs are very interested in Ball, then they have to investigate a trade for either Sexton or Garland. That's one possible route to improve the roster.

The biggest issue with the Garland/Sexton pairing is that it's very difficult to field a competitive defensive team with both of them on the court. How exactly does replacing Garland with another poor defender in Ball change that?

He has a point though. Sexton has showed more promise, Garland (while he did improve) looks like an inferior player currently. He would be the one to move.

However, we also have to factor in KPJ will likely be the best player out of all 3. Picking a guard in this draft would be a disaster.

Toppin, Wiseman, Okoro, Avdija should be the list of guys we look at. Honestly, it may even be worth trading out of this years draft.
I believe that's far from a given. Overall, he was not good this year. Not quite as poor as Garland, but it was much closer than the general sentiment would lead you to believe.

He should be pretty close to jersey retirement as it is; he is as deserving as Z is, at least, I think - better per-season even though less wine-and-gold body of work so far.

The question will be where he stands on greatest Cavs all-time. I still have to put Kyrie #2 after Bron; Love certainly is in the same ballpark as Nance Sr/Daugherty/Price when you look at the per-season stats.

I don't think Love is close to getting his jersey retired, I think he's an absolute lock.
 
Last edited:

The Human Q-Tip

Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up!
Moderator
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
27,852
Reaction score
44,389
Points
148
The biggest issue with the Garland/Sexton pairing is that it's very difficult to field a competitive defensive team with both of them on the court. How exactly does replacing Garland with another poor defender in Ball change that?


I believe that's far from a given. Overall, he was not good this year. Not quite as poor as Garland, but it was much closer than the general sentiment would lead you to believe.



I don't think Love is close to getting his jersey retired, I think he's an absolute lock.

Heh. Arging like hell in the Tribe threads, but I agree with all three of those points.

1) If we want two-way players, we have to start drafting guys that reasonably project that way

2) Ball doesn't.

3) Looking at the other jerseys already up there...yeah, Love's a shoo-in. Probably not in the Gahden or in L.A., but definitely in Cleveland.
 

cabs

NBA Starter
Joined
Jan 3, 2018
Messages
2,407
Reaction score
2,619
Points
113
Probably in the very small minority here but I don’t see the point of retiring numbers, you’re limiting good numbers for future players. Eventually a team is going to get to the point where no players can wear a single digit number. NBA in particular it’s overdone... Nick Collison got his retired because he was a nice teammate for 14 years.
 

6.19.2016

In the Rotation
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Messages
2,096
Reaction score
971
Points
113
Probably in the very small minority here but I don’t see the point of retiring numbers, you’re limiting good numbers for future players. Eventually a team is going to get to the point where no players can wear a single digit number. NBA in particular it’s overdone... Nick Collison got his retired because he was a nice teammate for 14 years.

I don't know, Love seems like one of the few All-Star players who would pick either 0, or the answer to life, the universe and everything, for his jersey. :) Although the latter was already used by LeBron's rumored biological father.

Unfortunately, given the limits of our history, a decent sidekick who stuck with the team like Z has set the line where jerseys can be retired. Same goes with the majority of franchises not named LAL/BOS/GS/CHI.
 

Ozone

Situational Stopper
Joined
Mar 10, 2017
Messages
668
Reaction score
268
Points
63
I would't trade Garland now. Need to give some more time and besides his value is low now. how about a ball/sexton combo as starting and a garland/porter combo as
second team.

As for team salary current 2021 109M plus say 6M for draft pick. Not sure TT is gone if he is willing to accept backup center money of 10M or less.

Would like to see the cavs buy a couple of second round picks.
disagree mostly with trying to buy a couple 2nd round picks unless they are for a specific player in the high 2nd like Pokusevski I would rather go for a late first again and maybe have a shot at somebody like Tillman with a high floor and still has some upside but lets say they didnt and went for some 2nds:The talent pool is not great after the top 20 besides role player ceiling or huge boom bust risk types. I mean in this one unless somebody with elite specialist skills like Y.Pons the elite defender who can jump out of the gym is available or a raw freak athlete like C.Stanley who could slide and might be worth the risk in the 31-40 range or maybe a intl like Bolmaro is a good stash option mid 2nd. idk
I guess it would be worth looking at a back up point guard tbh given that is the one position with plenty of depth in this class. you could really get a decent player like Pritchard who has FVV upside or a dynamic sleeper like Tyrell Terry could be worth it.
If they think they wont get a shot as a udfa I might look any available big with potential late 2nd if projects he could stick in the league for awhile if they develop him if there are any at that point a couple bigs that should fall there imo are Dak out of the Gleague Legends and maybe Gillespie (Baylor)whos ridiculous length could allow him to play sb 5 some and also guard the perimeter.
personal favorite late 2nd option would be Xaviers Ty Jones. doesnt stretch the floor even a little bit, but the man is bigtime game changer with a 29.47 PER last season.
 

cabs

NBA Starter
Joined
Jan 3, 2018
Messages
2,407
Reaction score
2,619
Points
113
If we’re gonna draft a back up pg which I really doubt we will I would prefer Lewis jr
 

Ozone

Situational Stopper
Joined
Mar 10, 2017
Messages
668
Reaction score
268
Points
63
If we’re gonna draft a back up pg which I really doubt we will I would prefer Lewis jr
probably a mid first round pick imo and likely a rotation guard even on a playoff level roster pretty fast so yeah would be a better than good backup but why waste a first on a 1 position defender when you can get real backup pg value from Jared Butler or Grant Riller at 45 or maybe combos like Joel Ayayi or Breein Tyree are sitting there for the taking late 2nd? I dont like any of the guards so much after top few that I would use a first on one unless they were all coming off the board like diminos falling.
I might use a early 2nd on Pritchard or Jones who are really the best prototypical backups in the class.
You might talk me into taking Mannion if he is still available for the upside.
 
Last edited:

inliner311

All-Star
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
8,856
Reaction score
8,281
Points
113
If I were Koby and the other GMs that didn't get into the bubble and the NBA doesn't want to do any formal summer league. I would get on the phones with other GMs and figure out a city to encourage my young players to head to. LA is usually a spot that all NBA players keep working out together during the summer. I would informally organize places and times for young players to meet and play against each other. Someone like Garland needs to be going against NBA talent and not be beating up on inferior talent in whatever random city he is in right now.

Maybe they could encourage the 2020 draft class to also go to that city and work out so they can do some informal scouting.
 

Cavatt

Hall-of-Famer
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
23,124
Reaction score
25,608
Points
135
The biggest issue with the Garland/Sexton pairing is that it's very difficult to field a competitive defensive team with both of them on the court. How exactly does replacing Garland with another poor defender in Ball change that?


I believe that's far from a given. Overall, he was not good this year. Not quite as poor as Garland, but it was much closer than the general sentiment would lead you to believe.



I don't think Love is close to getting his jersey retired, I think he's an absolute lock.

Nobody thinks KPJ's all year stats look great, but from where he started to where he ended up, he made huge progress.

Shot 12% from 3 in Oct, 25% in Nov, was in the high 30's for Dec and after that never shot less than 40%. 3 pt attempts increased form 2 a game to 4.5 at the end. he stopped taking so many off the dribble 3's which he was not good at in favor or catch and shoot which he was good at. Also, generally shot selection improved in a similar way to Sexton the year before.

Assists were 2 and under for most of the year. Feb and March 3 a game. Same pattern with FTA. Doubled from 1.5 to 3 those last 2 months.

Heavy dose of eye test goes into what people were saying. He was locked in better, and did not look like a hesitant rookie who didn't know what to do. He made better decisions and passed the ball well.

KPJ wasn't great this year, but the #30 clearly had a better year than the #3 overall pick, and he had some breakout games like his 30 against Miami. Barrett had a 27 point game

I keep comparing him to Andre Iguodala. I think it is pretty fair. If you compare their rookie season per 100 poss like you like to there are some obvious similarities

Iggy was 2 years older, and he was more seasoned already. They are both about the same size and have a similar handle.

Now Iggy's advanced numbers are better for sure. I think Iggy was far better as a defender for one thing. He also was better at rebounding by 2 rebounds. But it is from 6 to 8. So, from a good rebounder for a wing in Porter to a great one in Iggy.

Ft% is the same, assist rate and per 100 poss is very similar. Porter has the scoring edge, but also had a higher usage. I think if he continues his progress and he works on his shot selection he might be looking even more similar to Iggy by the time he is the same age.
 

Derek

1 by land, 2 by sea, 3 Baerga
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
14,439
Reaction score
19,872
Points
123
Nobody thinks KPJ's all year stats look great, but from where he started to where he ended up, he made huge progress.

Shot 12% from 3 in Oct, 25% in Nov, was in the high 30's for Dec and after that never shot less than 40%. 3 pt attempts increased form 2 a game to 4.5 at the end. he stopped taking so many off the dribble 3's which he was not good at in favor or catch and shoot which he was good at. Also, generally shot selection improved in a similar way to Sexton the year before.

Assists were 2 and under for most of the year. Feb and March 3 a game. Same pattern with FTA. Doubled from 1.5 to 3 those last 2 months.

Heavy dose of eye test goes into what people were saying. He was locked in better, and did not look like a hesitant rookie who didn't know what to do. He made better decisions and passed the ball well.

KPJ wasn't great this year, but the #30 clearly had a better year than the #3 overall pick, and he had some breakout games like his 30 against Miami. Barrett had a 27 point game

I keep comparing him to Andre Iguodala. I think it is pretty fair. If you compare their rookie season per 100 poss like you like to there are some obvious similarities

Iggy was 2 years older, and he was more seasoned already. They are both about the same size and have a similar handle.

Now Iggy's advanced numbers are better for sure. I think Iggy was far better as a defender for one thing. He also was better at rebounding by 2 rebounds. But it is from 6 to 8. So, from a good rebounder for a wing in Porter to a great one in Iggy.

Ft% is the same, assist rate and per 100 poss is very similar. Porter has the scoring edge, but also had a higher usage. I think if he continues his progress and he works on his shot selection he might be looking even more similar to Iggy by the time he is the same age.
Look at what I responded to. I'm not a huge Sexton fan but saying that KPJ will likely be better than him and Garland is a big stretch.

I just think people are setting themselves up for disappointment. We should be happy if KPJ can develop into a rotation player on a good team. Even you mention Iguodala as a comp, but he was already starting on a playoff team as a rookie.
 

Cavatt

Hall-of-Famer
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
23,124
Reaction score
25,608
Points
135
Look at what I responded to. I'm not a huge Sexton fan but saying that KPJ will likely be better than him and Garland is a big stretch.

I just think people are setting themselves up for disappointment. We should be happy if KPJ can develop into a rotation player on a good team. Even you mention Iguodala as a comp, but he was already starting on a playoff team as a rookie.

Iggy was 2 years older and 9th pick in the draft with 2 years of high level play in college. KPJ didn't get minutes in college and that seems like a pretty big mistake in retrospect for USC.

As the year went on People were asking to start him over Garland. I think saying he "wasn't very good" isn't very accurate. He improved as the year went on, and like Sexton, I expect him to improve again because he came pretty far in year 1.

Personally, I'd rank them as Sexton>KPJ>Garland right now not because of where any one of them is, but because that is the relative improvement of each.
 

Derek

1 by land, 2 by sea, 3 Baerga
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
14,439
Reaction score
19,872
Points
123
Iggy was 2 years older and 9th pick in the draft with 2 years of high level play in college. KPJ didn't get minutes in college and that seems like a pretty big mistake in retrospect for USC.

As the year went on People were asking to start him over Garland. I think saying he "wasn't very good" isn't very accurate. He improved as the year went on, and like Sexton, I expect him to improve again because he came pretty far in year 1.

Personally, I'd rank them as Sexton>KPJ>Garland right now not because of where any one of them is, but because that is the relative improvement of each.
I don't really care about how old Iggy was. You were the one who made the comp, not me.

As for the bolded, I'd say it's quite accurate, but my main point was the crazy expectations being put on him by a lot of fans. If he was in Memphis none of us would be paying any attention to him.

It doesn't mean he won't turn out alright, but let's pump the brakes, and let the kid grow without setting him up for failure.
 

Ozone

Situational Stopper
Joined
Mar 10, 2017
Messages
668
Reaction score
268
Points
63
I don't really care about how old Iggy was. You were the one who made the comp, not me.
As for the bolded, I'd say it's quite accurate, but my main point was the crazy expectations being put on him by a lot of fans. If he was in Memphis none of us would be paying any attention to him.

It doesn't mean he won't turn out alright, but let's pump the brakes, and let the kid grow without setting him up for failure.
not to pry into the convo but KPJ was highly recruited and was expected to be a lottery pick before college. He had some issues with authority and those things along with some injury issues hurt his stock and as it turned out hurt it a lot being passed on for more proven options like Windler or lower ceiling ones like Jordon Poole. KPJ does have a ways to go like any 1 and done, but I think it is safe to have high expectations for him
 

New Ownership

Total amount
$640.00
Goal
$1,200.00
Donation ends:
Top