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Derek

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not to pry into the convo but KPJ was highly recruited and was expected to be a lottery pick before college. He had some issues with authority and those things along with some injury issues hurt his stock and as it turned out hurt it a lot being passed on for more proven options like Windler or lower ceiling ones like Jordon Poole. KPJ does have a ways to go like any 1 and done, but I think it is safe to have high expectations for him
I’m well-aware of his history. He was a highly recruited guy, but that doesn’t really mean a ton when trying to project his NBA career. There are tons of guys who ranked ahead of him that won’t even get drafted. Hell, Garland was 24 spots higher in ESPN’s class rankings.

I’m just trying to be realistic. He had a solid rookie year, and an overwhelming majority of rookies are bad, him included.

Again, I’ll be happy if he turns into a guy that can play rotation minutes on a winning team.
 

Ozone

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I’m well-aware of his history. He was a highly recruited guy, but that doesn’t really mean a ton when trying to project his NBA career. There are tons of guys who ranked ahead of him that won’t even get drafted. Hell, Garland was 24 spots higher in ESPN’s class rankings.

I’m just trying to be realistic. He had a solid rookie year, and an overwhelming majority of rookies are bad, him included.

Again, I’ll be happy if he turns into a guy that can play rotation minutes on a winning team.
gotcha . my realistic expectation before the draft is he would become an all star caliber player by his 4th season.
But I also thought he would go in the lottery so maybe I missed something. Right now I would double down on it and say he will be potentially considered a top 3-5 player right behind Ja and Zion and in the mix with a couple others in that range from the 2019 draft as soon as the end of next season.
 

cabs

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I'm still not convinced on his outside shot even with his numbers trending up but the rest of his game looks good. Defense will naturally improve from his rookie season + a lot of defensive numbers are heavily impacted by the teams success, if he was drafted to the jazz for example its likely his defensive rating would be a lot higher
 

Derek

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gotcha . my realistic expectation before the draft is he would become an all star caliber player by his 4th season.
But I also thought he would go in the lottery so maybe I missed something. Right now I would double down on it and say he will be potentially considered a top 3-5 player right behind Ja and Zion and in the mix with a couple others in that range from the 2019 draft as soon as the end of next season.
We must have different definitions of the word realistic
 

Derek

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As a floor he may be a Kawhi Leonard type who doesn't make an All-Star team until his 5th season :conf (11):
KPJ could very well blow up and be a stud. We saw some flashes this year, but most rookies show flashes.

Based off his performance this year, I just don’t see how anyone could say that All-Star is his likely outcome.
 

Ozone

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We must have different definitions of the word realistic

Having a lack of confidence in any player to develop at the hands of this org may be your take on realism regarding this matter, but in reality your take is the safer cold platter definition of pessimism at it's worst.
KPJ has shown in flashes not only what made him look like an elite upside prospect but behavior and immaturity that caused many pessimistic front offices to opt for easier paths to success.
His floor is lower that most due to the risk of flaking out, but it's pretty obvious too me his ceiling is attainable and it is elite or near elite depending on your realistic definition of elite. I am not suggesting he is Lebron but I do not think it's out of the question for him to develop Harden level offensive impact if this org wakes up and hands him the first opton keys to the team
 

Ozone

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KPJ could very well blow up and be a stud. We saw some flashes this year, but most rookies show flashes.

Based off his performance this year, I just don’t see how anyone could say that All-Star is his likely outcome.
it is more likely you wont ever give a hot take about anyone
 

Derek

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dont you get tired of giving luke warm opinion . sound off like you got a pair
I’m sorry that most topics are nuanced.

Also, please refrain from the attacks.
 

Derek

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there I changed it your welcome
*you’re :chuckle:

Sorry, I’m just picking.

I guess I just don’t see the value in hot takes. By definition, they’re not grounded in reality. They’re just meant to grab attention.

You can say my takes are lukewarm and that I ride the fence sometimes, but I take that as a compliment.
 

Cavatt

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I don't really care about how old Iggy was. You were the one who made the comp, not me.

As for the bolded, I'd say it's quite accurate, but my main point was the crazy expectations being put on him by a lot of fans. If he was in Memphis none of us would be paying any attention to him.

It doesn't mean he won't turn out alright, but let's pump the brakes, and let the kid grow without setting him up for failure.

Well, which rookie is good? Zion and Ja, and the rest are trash?

All the redrafts I saw of 2019 had Porter JR in the lottery. The Pistons fans seem pretty interested in Porter Jr and are quite mad at their front office for trading that pick away. I have heard many commentators say he could end up the steal of the draft. It seems like you might be the one that isn't paying attention?

It's fine to not think Porter is that good, but should we not hope our Rookie who seems to be a top 10 or even top 5 talent becomes an allstar? Everyone still seems to think RJ Barrett is a top 5 talent according to most, and Porter had an objectively better year than him.

We are fans, we are encouraged by the fact our 30th pick is a rotation player and looks like he has 2 way wing potential and outperformed our #5 pick.
 

Derek

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Well, which rookie is good? Zion and Ja, and the rest are trash?

All the redrafts I saw of 2019 had Porter JR in the lottery. The Pistons fans seem pretty interested in Porter Jr and are quite mad at their front office for trading that pick away. I have heard many commentators say he could end up the steal of the draft. It seems like you might be the one that isn't paying attention?

It's fine to not think Porter is that good, but should we not hope our Rookie who seems to be a top 10 or even top 5 talent becomes an allstar? Everyone still seems to think RJ Barrett is a top 5 talent according to most, and Porter had an objectively better year than him.

We are fans, we are encouraged by the fact our 30th pick is a rotation player and looks like he has 2 way wing potential and outperformed our #5 pick.
A large majority of rookies aren't good. I didn't realize I'd get negative feedback on that. I thought that was mostly understood. Yes, Ja and Zion are the only rookies that I would say were good in large roles. However, there were a few others that performed well as role players (Clarke, Hayes, Thybulle). KPJ had a promising rookie year, but no, I don't think he was a good player this year. Like most rookies, he was a net negative.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to be hostile here, so I'll just move past the bolded comment.

You don't need to bring up Barrett to me, I'm not a big fan.

The last statement you made I am in 100% agreement with. You should be encouraged! I am too! I have never said otherwise!
 

Cavatt

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A large majority of rookies aren't good. I didn't realize I'd get negative feedback on that. I thought that was mostly understood. Yes, Ja and Zion are the only rookies that I would say were good in large roles. However, there were a few others that performed well as role players (Clarke, Hayes, Thybulle). KPJ had a promising rookie year, but no, I don't think he was a good player this year. Like most rookies, he was a net negative.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to be hostile here, so I'll just move past the bolded comment.

You don't need to bring up Barrett to me, I'm not a big fan.

The last statement you made I am in 100% agreement with. You should be encouraged! I am too! I have never said otherwise!

I think you are taking the wrong lesson from the stats you are looking at. If it doesn't predict anything, what good is it and why should you use it on rookies if most rookies are a net negative? Stats are meant to give us information, but in the case of rookies they tell us they are all bad. To me that is like saying a baby is bad at walking. Compared to an adult, yeah they are. What good does that do? Does it mean the baby will never walk?

Looking at full year stats for rookies tell you not much. If you look at stats on Garland's floater it looks like it sucks or is ok. But that doesn't tell the whole story because it greatly improved from horrible to real weapon for him over the course of the year. No way to tell that without looking at the stats over time.

We seem to get into this argument every day where you talk about how much stats hate rookies. I am well aware.

I guess I totally can't tell what your point is? "there's no guarantee Porter is an allstar". We all know that. You can take that argument to an absurd degree and say that the NBA may not be around by the time Porter is in his prime or the world may explode and you wouldn't be wrong, but I can't tell what it adds?

I said that about not paying attention because commentators and other fan bases like Porter more than you do. Why are all of these people and the articles below so far off about him?

USA today says he might be our best prospect


"Cavaliers may have struck gold"


IS KPJ the most underrated prospect


Voted steal of the draft by his peers before the season.

KPJ is 21stin the league in drawing fouls at the rim.

"On attempts 0-3 feet out, KPJ has hit 71.8 percent of those on a frequency of 29.5 percent" That's better percentage than Lebron his rookie year.

We all know the stats aren't all in and there is no guarantee that he is going to be an allstar, but you can't say there is no hint of him being elite.

He had a 30 pts 8 rebounds 3 steals and 3 assists in that win over Miami. Who has put up such stats before the age of 22 since 2000? The only 2 non-multiple allstars to do it of which there are 47 are Aaron Gordon and Quentin Richardson. Lebron shows up on that list a bunch. Only 2 guys did it before 20 like KPJ did. Lebron and Kevin Durant. That's it.

You can pretend our enthusiasm is not based on anything, but the Cavs spent a lot of money on him, other teams are jealous, and the fans are excited. I am not sure you are the one being realistic and we are the ones that aren't.
 

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