2020 Offseason

[adam81king]

My biggest fear is that this mandate from Billion Dollar Dan makes Koby mortgage the future for the sake of the present. That *never* works out well...especially for a team in a city with limited draw and resources.

 

[Alec]

Given his condition, I can’t fault Dan for wanting to see the team not suck sooner, rather than later. But the unfortunate reality is that only a few teams most years truly contend. So is eeeking into the 8th seed really not sucking? Or just a more palatable level of sucking?

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

My biggest fear is that this mandate from Billion Dollar Dan makes Koby mortgage the future for the sake of the present. That *never* works out well...especially for a team in a city with limited draw and resources.

That's possible. But it also could be the case that given Windhorst belief that picks are for sale, Dan may be opening up the checkbook to add another pick as a way to accelerate the rebuild.

 

[Cavatt]

That's possible. But it also could be the case that given Windhorst belief that picks are for sale, Dan may be opening up the checkbook to add another pick as a way to accelerate the rebuild.

Yeah I am all in on that.

I think what people are nervous about is that we need a coalescing nucleus to form the team. We are not sure we have that yet. Sexton is promising and so is KPJ> Windler and Darius are differnet levels of unknown right now, but we don't clearly have a franchise player right now, and we need that I think before they start making more Drummond style, playoff seeking moves.

I would be fine with trying to shore up the roster defensively this year. I think that would be a smart area for Bickerstaff to try to really change the team. Really the younger guys are pretty decent offensively. If Bickerstaff could sign a defensive vet who is a vocal leader, that could go a long way.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

Contending requires finding elite stars. You can occasionally find a Giannis in the middle of round 1, but most franchise changers are picked at or near the top. You need to be bad because you are playing youth long enough that you strike gold. This team likely is near top of lottery next year as well so they have a couple more swings at it before they need to just reboot Sexton, Garland etc and become Sacramento.

 

[Murph]

Contending requires finding elite stars. You can occasionally find a Giannis in the middle of round 1, but most franchise changers are picked at or near the top. You need to be bad because you are playing youth long enough that you strike gold. This team likely is near top of lottery next year as well so they have a couple more swings at it before they need to just reboot Sexton, Garland etc and become Sacramento.

That’s an interesting statement and bears more scrutiny. Exactly how often can you find a Giannis at #15?

Well, oddly enough it’s happened twice very recently, with Giannis and Kawhi Leonard, who was also taken at 15.

But those two guys are two of the best picks in NBA history. The only pick I would put above Giannis and Kawhi is Kobe Bryant. Kobe was taken at 13 and ended up being a top 10 player in NBA history.

My point being, the chances of getting a player of Giannis’s stature in the middle of the draft happens about once every 25 years.

 

[Otsego Mar]

The Giannis headbutt disappoints me.

 

[Cassity14]

That’s an interesting statement and bears more scrutiny. Exactly how often can you find a Giannis at #15?

Well, oddly enough it’s happened twice very recently, with Giannis and Kawhi Leonard, who was also taken at 15.

But those two guys are two of the best picks in NBA history. The only pick I would put above Giannis and Kawhi is Kobe Bryant. Kobe was taken at 13 and ended up being a top 10 player in NBA history.

My point being, the chances of getting a player of Giannis’s stature in the middle of the draft happens about once every 25 years.

If we expand the conversation to all-star caliber players taken from pick 10 to pick 20, however, there are plenty of examples, and almost always at least 1 in any given draft.

Examples (I won't use 2019 because it's far too early to tell there):

2018: Porter Jr (14), SGA (11)

2017: Donovan Mitchell (13), Bam Adebayo(14)

2016: Sabonis (11), Caris Levert (20)

2015: Devin Booker (13)

2014: Levine (13), Nurkic (16)

2013: Adams (12) Giannis (15)

2012: Fournier (20)

2011: Klay (11), Kawhi (15), Tobias Harris (19)

2010: Paul George (10), Eric Bledsoe (18)

Now, not everyone on this list has made multiple all-star games and there are even a couple not to make one but have the talent and are considered fringe all-stars. The point is that while it's rare to find a generational talent this late in the draft, there are plenty of guys who go on to have the careers we expect out of someone taken top 5.

The good teams find and develop these guys. Obviously there's a little luck involved, but the talent is always out there to be spotted.

 

[Henry Tuttle]

If we expand the conversation to all-star caliber players taken from pick 10 to pick 20, however, there are plenty of examples, and almost always at least 1 in any given draft.

Also, there's no real reason to limit this to top 20. If scouting is good and trusted by the front office, they should be able to take a swing if they think someone deserves to be drafted higher than consensus. So I'm thinking in addition to your list...

Nikola Jokić (41)
Pascal Siakam (27)
Montrezl Harrell (32)
Rudy Gobert (27)
Draymond Green (35)
Khris Middleton (39)
Jimmy Butler (30)
Bojan Bogdanović (31)

Adding those to your list, that's 25 all-star caliber players taken outside the top 10 since 2010, which is almost 3 players/draft. So, in a vacuum, each team was a 10% chance of hitting on one of this guys in any given draft. The last time the Cavs hit like this was either Anderson Varejao or Boozer depending on your constraints, so they are definitely due!

 

[inliner311]

My biggest fear is that this mandate from Billion Dollar Dan makes Koby mortgage the future for the sake of the present. That *never* works out well...especially for a team in a city with limited draw and resources.

I think it more about not making moves for trades and make moves to build this team out. Also to not sit players when anything comes up and to try to win as much as possible.

I think Koby will need to balance out the roster more. TT might want to come back but does it make sense to throw him a contract if we have Drummond, Nance, and Love on the roster. Does it make any sense to bring Delly back. I think Gilbert wants Koby to make this into a modern NBA roster more than a roster full of young guys and veteran players that are trade assets with little in-between.

One other thing is they might not feel confident in this draft class so trading away the pick or trading down might be in their strategy.

 

[WorldFreeB]

I think it more about not making moves for trades and make moves to build this team out. Also to not sit players when anything comes up and to try to win as much as possible.

I think Koby will need to balance out the roster more. TT might want to come back but does it make sense to throw him a contract if we have Drummond, Nance, and Love on the roster. Does it make any sense to bring Delly back. I think Gilbert wants Koby to make this into a modern NBA roster more than a roster full of young guys and veteran players that are trade assets with little in-between.

One other thing is they might not feel confident in this draft class so trading away the pick or trading down might be in their strategy.

If Delly would take a cheap deal (which I don't see anyone else offering him much) I would definitely bring him back.
He won't complain about playing time and would be like a coach for the young guys to soak up info from. I want Delly back.
It was crazy how good the team was run when Delly was humming last year.

 

[ansatsusha80]

I heard kpj was around. Nance said he was there by himself about 3 weeks ago. Good to hear the young guys are getting in work. I would like to see Collin with them.

I wouldn't be surprised, if Sexton is working his ass off in the middle of the night.....lol

I think the Cavs plans and chances for next season are directly related to the lottery results. A pick around #5 will do little to move the needle.
However a top 2 pick could add significant talent to the roster. Either with a premium rookie, or trading the pick in a package for some veteran talent.

I hope,we get a top two pick on Thursday....

If Delly would take a cheap deal (which I don't see anyone else offering him much) I would definitely bring him back.
He won't complain about playing time and would be like a coach for the young guys to soak up info from. I want Delly back.
It was crazy how good the team was run when Delly was humming last year.

I agree,Sexton played well when Delly was in the lineup with him.

 

[Man Called X]

... So... The team petitioning to make sure Tristan gets resigned?


Followed up by Nance.


I'm all for bringing back to TT for sentimental reasons/leadership qualities. Didn't expect to see his teammates wanting it too.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

If we expand the conversation to all-star caliber players taken from pick 10 to pick 20, however, there are plenty of examples, and almost always at least 1 in any given draft.

Examples (I won't use 2019 because it's far too early to tell there):

2018: Porter Jr (14), SGA (11)

2017: Donovan Mitchell (13), Bam Adebayo(14)

2016: Sabonis (11), Caris Levert (20)

2015: Devin Booker (13)

2014: Levine (13), Nurkic (16)

2013: Adams (12) Giannis (15)

2012: Fournier (20)

2011: Klay (11), Kawhi (15), Tobias Harris (19)

2010: Paul George (10), Eric Bledsoe (18)

Now, not everyone on this list has made multiple all-star games and there are even a couple not to make one but have the talent and are considered fringe all-stars. The point is that while it's rare to find a generational talent this late in the draft, there are plenty of guys who go on to have the careers we expect out of someone taken top 5.

The good teams find and develop these guys. Obviously there's a little luck involved, but the talent is always out there to be spotted.

I differentiate talent from the elite guys on teams that win or contend regularly for titles. You need those guys to have a chance to win it all and that needs to be your goal. In the NHL, there have been a number of champions that just scrapped their way to a Stanley Cup. That just doesn't happen in the NBA with maybe Toronto as the closest example and they needed to trade for Kawhi and get LeBron out of the East to get over the top.

 

[Cassity14]

I differentiate talent from the elite guys on teams that win or contend regularly for titles. You need those guys to have a chance to win it all and that needs to be your goal. In the NHL, there have been a number of champions that just scrapped their way to a Stanley Cup. That just doesn't happen in the NBA with maybe Toronto as the closest example and they needed to trade for Kawhi and get LeBron out of the East to get over the top.

I see where you're coming from, but does that mean you are only looking at the guys on contending teams period? I think that can be unfair, especially when looking at currently young guys who simply don't have the talent and/or organization around them to be a title contender right now. Using my list, for example, I don't think Booker or Mitchell are substantially worse players than some stars on title contending teams.