2021-2022 Cavaliers General Discussion: Trade Deadline Edition

[Cavatt]

Perhaps, but what we really need (whether we call him a SG or SF) is an athletic wing to counter really athletic teams. Okoro can do that as an undersized SF, but we lose scoring. Osman (and perhaps Windler) have the size to play SF, and they can shoot, but they don't have the athleticism to address the need you mention.

If teams start "running us off the floor" in transition, we may not be able to use three 7 footers, but that hasn't happened yet, because they are all reasonably athletic. Markkanen may not be able to keep those athletic SF from getting past him to the paint, but his height keeps them from shooting over him, and if/when they get past him, they have Mobley and Allen waiting at the rim. There aren't many guys (Sexton is one) in the league who can blow past their man at the 3-point line and then pull up for the mid-range, but that would be one way to attack our Tri-Towers defense.

Yeah we haven't really seen this yet. Maybe Golden state came the closest? They play so damn fast. But that really came down to holding defenders while Curry hit repeated 3's.

The only game we really saw some wings get what they wanted was the 2nd game of the season against Charlotte and the team is much better since then

 

[inliner311]

Perhaps, but what we really need (whether we call him a SG or SF) is an athletic wing to counter really athletic teams. Okoro can do that as an undersized SF, but we lose scoring. Osman (and perhaps Windler) have the size to play SF, and they can shoot, but they don't have the athleticism to address the need you mention.

If teams start "running us off the floor" in transition, we may not be able to use three 7 footers, but that hasn't happened yet, because they are all reasonably athletic. Markkanen may not be able to keep those athletic SF from getting past him to the paint, but his height keeps them from shooting over him, and if/when they get past him, they have Mobley and Allen waiting at the rim. There aren't many guys (Sexton is one) in the league who can blow past their man at the 3-point line and then pull up for the mid-range, but that would be one way to attack our Tri-Towers defense.

I think because of talent and injuries we haven't really seen it to make an negative impression on most of us. I think JBB hasn't overplayed the 3 7 footer lineup and has tended to switch to a more traditional lineup when sign of it not working starts to arise. If it was intentional or just a product of the other depth we had, I think it protected the 3 7 footer lineup from scrutiny while they got time to gel.

Maybe the early play where we were all questioning why Stevens was playing was so that he could be the scapegoat so the 3 7 footer lineup wouldn't fail before they had the real chance to figure itself out.

I think lineup flexibility is huge in the NBA. This lineup could be one of a couple in a spectrum if we can build out the proper depth. A single lineup can look really good against certain team and not have much success against others. I wouldn't lean in too hard on this lineup for the pure bases on this team. I think a quality SF opens up more quality lineups to use to counter teams.

I think the team has found 3 players that they can base a big lineup off of with Markkanen, Mobley, and Allen. I also think over the last couple years we know Garland and Sexton could be a small lineup. I think the questions becomes all the lineups in-between those to figure out how to match up or exploit other teams.

 

[rabman_gold]

Watching these games play out is the most fun I've had in years. We're still at .500, but if feels different to last year's similar record. When you compare it to last year (2020-21), when both teams at the very least played 19 games each, there was a different air to them.

For example:

• Last year didn't reach the 19th game until January 29th 2021. That means the teams playing were not used to a late start to the season.
• Last year, they played 13 different teams compared to 15 this year (more cities to travel to in a short span).
• The notorious west coast trip usually starts in January, but this year's Cavs got a mini-west coast trip earlier.
• Last year, there were 8 double-digit losses. This year, only 5 so far.
• Last year had 4 different losing streaks through 19 games. This year, 2 (though there was a bigger losing streak of 5 games in a row, but I digress).

Both last year's and this year's Cavs played with a similar pace (around 96), but there's a bigger difference in points scored in the first 19 games played:

• Last year? 104.2 (Cavs points per game) VS 108.6 (opponents points per game)
• This year? 102.9 (Cavs) VS 103.5 (opponents)
• This means that last year, the Cavs were outscored by 4. And this year, less than a point per game.

That doesn't even include the changes on the roster:

• Last year, 10 players were able to play in 10+ games before their 19th game. This year? 12 players.
• Of these group of players from last year: all except 1 played 10+ minutes a game. This year had 11. So even with injury, this year's club had managed to pull out more of its depth, even though there were some rash of injuries so far. And given that last year, they made a trade early on probably because of the rash of injuries suffered.
• Last year, 5 players (of the healthier ones) averaged double digit points. This year? 8 players.

tl;dr:
I feel encouraged seeing these results because you get the sense that we'll be better off than last year (since they didn't get 11 wins until their 32nd game).

 

[Prof123]

It goes much deeper than the stats, too. We have been competitive in pretty much every game. Of our ten losses so far, in how many of them have we held a double-digit lead in the second half? All of them? Plus, our injuries have been more severe this year. Plus, we have played a harder schedule. Plus, we don't have that black-hole-offense-breaking head case (Drummond) on our team . Plus, these players genuinely like each other and play with a lot of joy. Finally, we are actually outscoring our opponents this year by a point per game (if you update it to include all 21 games).

 

[Futuredome]

It is amazing how the Cavs are doing better despite Sexton's injury, playing a very hard schedule and Garland's shooting regression. Frobley is a big part of it. Cedi's return is another. Rubio won one game himself lol. Teams may actually have to gameplan for the Cavs.

 

[buzzdog]

I think if we want to create more lineup flexibility we still want a small forward more than a shooting guard. Even if it's a shooting guard that can play SF. I'd much rather have a solid SF that can play SG or PF. There will be teams that will run our 3 7 footer lineup off the floor with quicker wings. I think we will want a SF to be able to counter when teams put more wings on the floor.

I think the Mavs wanted to try to match up with the Cavs instead of trying to push JBB to move off of the 3 7 footer lineup. The Mavs don't really have the wing depth to exploit us.

I'll believe it when I see it. The way it's worked all year so far is we're making everyone else adjust to our lineup instead of the opposite, which is exactly what successful teams do. Our triple tree lineup has stifled those "quicker wings" you're so afraid of. The position-less basketball lineups made up interchangeable 6'8" guys that everyone said would dominate the entire NBA are a myth IMO. I've always advocated for breaking the mold and ignoring that kind of dogma and that's exactly what this lineup of ours is doing.

 

[buzzdog]

I think because of talent and injuries we haven't really seen it to make an negative impression on most of us. I think JBB hasn't overplayed the 3 7 footer lineup and has tended to switch to a more traditional lineup when sign of it not working starts to arise. If it was intentional or just a product of the other depth we had, I think it protected the 3 7 footer lineup from scrutiny while they got time to gel.

Maybe the early play where we were all questioning why Stevens was playing was so that he could be the scapegoat so the 3 7 footer lineup wouldn't fail before they had the real chance to figure itself out.

I think lineup flexibility is huge in the NBA. This lineup could be one of a couple in a spectrum if we can build out the proper depth. A single lineup can look really good against certain team and not have much success against others. I wouldn't lean in too hard on this lineup for the pure bases on this team. I think a quality SF opens up more quality lineups to use to counter teams.

I think the team has found 3 players that they can base a big lineup off of with Markkanen, Mobley, and Allen. I also think over the last couple years we know Garland and Sexton could be a small lineup. I think the questions becomes all the lineups in-between those to figure out how to match up or exploit other teams.

I can agree more with this concept. To be fair there have been a few games where JBB was running almost all guards for extended minutes before Sexton went down. I'm not against crossing opponents up by zigging when they zag.

And to be fair I've never been against getting a quality wing although I still think Cedi has stepped up his game and I haven't given up on Windler someday pulling his head out of his ass.

What I am against is over-paying for a quality wing out of desperation. I'd rather wait for the right opportunity and jump when the time is right. Forcing things never works.

 

[edg1931]

I think it should also be mentioned that the Cavs are playing one of the toughest schedules in the league so far. Their remaining 61 games have one of the top 4 easiest schedules remaining. So, although injuries will happen, I think an easier schedule should help as they shoot for the playoffs the year.

I'd imagine they will be a buyer at the deadline this year too. You can tell Kobe is the type of guy who will go make a trade to get a guy to improve the team if we are even within striking distance. I bet the Cavs trade their first this year for a really solid vet. Not sure who, but the Cavs are now in a position where you want to start getting more Ricky Rubios to surround our young talent with. We have one of the top 6 youngest rosters in the league and you want to show our guys that we will make moves to bring in good vets at the deadline to help make the playoffs if they play well. That's why guys resign places and stay happy. By far the most exciting year since LBJ!

 

[wuck]

How can I delete these? Second time that it created an extra post when I tried to respond to someone. It seems we can edit, but not delete.

Yes, you can edit but not delete. If you edit to say "please delete" or "duplicate post", we will take care them if noticed.

 

[ryanf]

I don't know how long you've followed the Cavs, but signing players MLE, UFA, Max, Min.. not exactly our strong suit. In fact, Laurie Markkanen should be looked at as an absolute coup for the Cavs in terms of signing a free agent. Gonna need to develop one or trade for one.

hmmmm... i don't appreciate the dig man. but i do remember ring chasers coming to cleveland, end of career stars who are more suited coming off the bench.

and these are the type of players i'm talking about. remember, i am referring to MLE type of players. these are useful players who are either veterans or out of rotation guys in a position log jam in their previous teams.

has superstars turned down offers from cavs? yes, almost always. but these aren't the guys we are talking about here.

 

[tristan+kyrie=$]

Tell you what if Cavs do make the playoffs I think the crowds are going to be similar to lebrons first run with the team. The Q will be rocking for these young guys

 

[weepinwillow]

hmmmm... i don't appreciate the dig man. but i do remember ring chasers coming to cleveland, end of career stars who are more suited coming off the bench.

and these are the type of players i'm talking about. remember, i am referring to MLE type of players. these are useful players who are either veterans or out of rotation guys in a position log jam in their previous teams.

has superstars turned down offers from cavs? yes, almost always. but these aren't the guys we are talking about here.

not meant as a dig, bud, sorry if took that way. I'm just saying, our big signings are people like Gerald "Jordan-Stopper" Wilkins, Donyell Marshall, Larry Hughes. Plus, ring chasing happened when the Cavs had the best player in the NBA with Irving and Love.. that didn't happen first go around.

We might be able to add a bench guy who's better than Denzel Valentine as we progress, I'll grant that, but I don't see us pulling a top end starter just to play with Evan.

 

[sailfish]

Tell you what if Cavs do make the playoffs I think the crowds are going to be similar to lebrons first run with the team. The Q will be rocking for these young guys

With the Browns being a big disappointment and the Cavaliers exceeding expectations, the Q should be rocking now, at least if people want to see a winning team. These guys are a joy to watch & deserve our support.

 

[Dr No]

With the Browns being a big disappointment and the Cavaliers exceeding expectations, the Q should be rocking now, at least if people want to see a winning team. These guys are a joy to watch & deserve our support.

If we are still in the mix for the playoffs when football season ends, I bet the crowds start finding their way to the Q. Good or bad, it’s a football state first, but a team as easy to root for as this one will bring people in eventually.

 

[avs2000]

I think it should also be mentioned that the Cavs are playing one of the toughest schedules in the league so far. Their remaining 61 games have one of the top 4 easiest schedules remaining. So, although injuries will happen, I think an easier schedule should help as they shoot for the playoffs the year.

I'd imagine they will be a buyer at the deadline this year too. You can tell Kobe is the type of guy who will go make a trade to get a guy to improve the team if we are even within striking distance. I bet the Cavs trade their first this year for a really solid vet. Not sure who, but the Cavs are now in a position where you want to start getting more Ricky Rubios to surround our young talent with. We have one of the top 6 youngest rosters in the league and you want to show our guys that we will make moves to bring in good vets at the deadline to help make the playoffs if they play well. That's why guys resign places and stay happy. By far the most exciting year since LBJ!

Not sure who I would trade at this point
Certainly not garland, allen, Mobley
Okoro is possible, just not sure what he brings back
MK has been very productive and is on a good contract
Cedi. Great contract and not sure what we would back that replaces his production
Rubio. Is a possibility but would miss his leadership
Sexton. Not with his contract status and injury
Love is possible if he keep playing like he is but again we would get back an equally bad contract
Windler, Lamar and Wade have little value
I am kind of staying status quo and using our picks in the draft and looking for some mle vets in the off season