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2021 Minor League Thread

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This is simply not true and either way, some players will have to learn other positions or be traded. If Gimenez keeps Arias from playing SS that either means that Arias didn't continue hitting well or Arias simply outgrew SS. As of right now, I'd say Arias has the leg up defensively. Their range is similar, but their arms are not. Arias has an absolute cannon and Arias has an advantage on plays deep and toward 3B.

Offensively, Arias is still more in a development phase, for lack of a better description, but Gimenez was not a better hitter as a minor leaguer. In fact, the opposite may be true. The one thing Arias clearly has an advantage in is power and it shows in their OPS. Their averages are similar. Their OBP is similar. Simply put, Arias' upside is huge, but none of this is a knock on Gimenez and I think we're very fortunate to have both.

Bimbo had mentioned trading some of the MIF surplus to possibly address a need, and of course I love that idea, but what are the needs? We wanted corner OFers, but it appears that LF and RF have Naylor, Jones, Valera, and maybe Johnson just about ready to varying degrees. They'll have to trade Ramirez to create a need for a 3B. SS and 2B are more than covered. When Rosario gets enough reps we won't need a CFer anytime soon. 1B should be covered between Bradley or Jones unless they decide that a RHH 1B is needed. The one thing that you can never have enough of is SP I guess, so that could be a target. My point is that they are on the verge of a crunch and I'm not so sure they'll want to block some of their well thought of players/prospects. Are we looking at acquiring lower level, high upside prospects?

SS is Gimenez position to lose now to a guy like Arias who would have to take it from him. Gimenez with the quick reference stats has been better when it comes to making less errors and has shown a better range than Arias defensively plus he is physically quicker than Arias. Arias on the other hand does have a stronger arm and has way more upside in the end.

Gimenez is still very young so he's still developing as well. I mean he's 22 and last season lost his rookie status. Gimenez also needs to work on getting back to the taking more walks like he did when he started in the minors. I think his OBP% will end up higher than Arias but his OPS will always be lower since that's not his game.
 
A good debate Gimenez vs Arias.

But if you go by results at the same levels and the same ages, Gimenez has been the better offensive player.

If you throw in stolen bases, the gap widens.
 
A good debate Gimenez vs Arias.

But if you go by results at the same levels and the same ages, Gimenez has been the better offensive player.

If you throw in stolen bases, the gap widens.

Arias though in one season had as many HRs as Gimenez had in all of his seasons it feels like.

Gimenez will be at the top or bottom of a lineup while Arias has a middle of the order style of bat
 
SS is Gimenez position to lose now to a guy like Arias who would have to take it from him. Gimenez with the quick reference stats has been better when it comes to making less errors and has shown a better range than Arias defensively plus he is physically quicker than Arias. Arias on the other hand does have a stronger arm and has way more upside in the end.

Gimenez is still very young so he's still developing as well. I mean he's 22 and last season lost his rookie status. Gimenez also needs to work on getting back to the taking more walks like he did when he started in the minors. I think his OBP% will end up higher than Arias but his OPS will always be lower since that's not his game.
This is a pretty fair assessment IMO and I agree that Arias will have to take SS away from Gimenez. All I'm saying is that if Arias continues on his current path that he's perfectly capable of doing so. Both are very good defensively. I think that Arias has more of a chance to offensively profile as Lindor has and I feel that Tito prefers that profile if things are fairly equal defensively.
A good debate Gimenez vs Arias.

But if you go by results at the same levels and the same ages, Gimenez has been the better offensive player.

If you throw in stolen bases, the gap widens.
Andres Gimenez as a 19 yr old in A+ 282/348/432/780 with 6 HR, 20 2B in 308 AB.
Gabriel Arias as a 19 yr old in A+ 302/339/470/809 with 17 HR, 21 2B in 477 AB.

I wouldn't even call it a debate. Both are exceptional SS. Gimenez has advanced quicker, but Arias' upside supersedes what is expected of Gimenez. Coach nailed it offensively IMO. The difference being Gimenez is a top of the order bat and Arias looks to be a middle of the order bat.
 
Again, the emphasis on home runs while ignoring everything else.

At age 19 Arias Kd 124 times and had 8 SB. Gimenez had 28 SB. He also had a higher wRC+. In fact at every level at the same ages, Gimenez has had a higher wRC+.
 
counting stats can be sooooo misleading..

consider..

12 to 12 1/2..

Extra base hits.. whether they go out of the yard or stay in.. Both guys.. were in this territory for production.. one not much different from the other.. it's what the numbers say.. so it must be true.. Gimenez is getting it done at the highest level right now.. Arias.. hasn't had the same chance to get it done at the highest level yet.. perhaps in a few weeks?..

We'll see...
 
Would like to see the tribe punt this season and take the rebuild route. Been following the tribe for 60 years and Ramirez is my all time favorite player for a whole bunch of reasons. I would trade Jose. I see what the White Sox did in trading Sale and others and that. along with hitting in the draft now have a line up resembling the 90's Indians.

IMO, the tribe will be fighting the Tigers for the cellar and not fighting the Chisox for the division title this season.
 
Would like to see the tribe punt this season and take the rebuild route. Been following the tribe for 60 years and Ramirez is my all time favorite player for a whole bunch of reasons. I would trade Jose. I see what the White Sox did in trading Sale and others and that. along with hitting in the draft now have a line up resembling the 90's Indians.

IMO, the tribe will be fighting the Tigers for the cellar and not fighting the Chisox for the division title this season.
Not happening unless they're out of it by July. They didn't sign Eddie Rosario, Ollie Perez, and Cesar Hernandez while giving tryouts to Bryan Shaw, Billy Hamilton, and Harold Ramirez if they were going to punt the season.
 
Not happening unless they're out of it by July. They didn't sign Eddie Rosario, Ollie Perez, and Cesar Hernandez while giving tryouts to Bryan Shaw, Billy Hamilton, and Harold Ramirez if they were going to punt the season.
I never said it WOULD happen. I'm just voicing my opinion as to what I think they should do.
 
Would like to see the tribe punt this season and take the rebuild route. Been following the tribe for 60 years and Ramirez is my all time favorite player for a whole bunch of reasons. I would trade Jose. I see what the White Sox did in trading Sale and others and that. along with hitting in the draft now have a line up resembling the 90's Indians.

IMO, the tribe will be fighting the Tigers for the cellar and not fighting the Chisox for the division title this season.

A lot of fans keep talking about the Sale trade as an example of what we should do with Jose.

Have we all gone insane?

This is what Chicago got out of the Sale trade.

Moncado, who in the four seasons since has had one superb season....5+ WAR...and a few okay years. Hes had one year in which he was much more than a league average hitter. If he hadn't signed a long term contract, he would be in arby with the same amount of control we still have with Jose.

Kopech made four starts three years ago, and they were mostly ugly. He is now being tried in the pen.

The other two....one was traded for cash considerations, the other is out of baseball.

Thats what we want to get out of JRam? If we made that exact trade today, we would get a lot less production...14.9 fWAR to 9.2, if you use the last three seasons as a base....and we'd be in the same spot, three years of control left.

I want no part of that kind of trade.
 
A lot of fans keep talking about the Sale trade as an example of what we should do with Jose.

Have we all gone insane?

This is what Chicago got out of the Sale trade.

Moncado, who in the four seasons since has had one superb season....5+ WAR...and a few okay years. Hes had one year in which he was much more than a league average hitter. If he hadn't signed a long term contract, he would be in arby with the same amount of control we still have with Jose.

Kopech made four starts three years ago, and they were mostly ugly. He is now being tried in the pen.

The other two....one was traded for cash considerations, the other is out of baseball.

Thats what we want to get out of JRam? If we made that exact trade today, we would get a lot less production...14.9 fWAR to 9.2, if you use the last three seasons as a base....and we'd be in the same spot, three years of control left.

I want no part of that kind of trade.
I prefer to call this affliction mildly imbalanced..
 
Would like to see the tribe punt this season and take the rebuild route. Been following the tribe for 60 years and Ramirez is my all time favorite player for a whole bunch of reasons. I would trade Jose. I see what the White Sox did in trading Sale and others and that. along with hitting in the draft now have a line up resembling the 90's Indians.

IMO, the tribe will be fighting the Tigers for the cellar and not fighting the Chisox for the division title this season.

With the talent in the minors taking years to develop and such a big part of future success, i dont think you 'punt" on a season in MLB and rebuild for the future like football and basketball. So, so, so many more nuances that that which take years to develop.

We got younger for sure, got rid of a cornerstone piece, but we have allot of good pitching still and a ton of young but very good tallent. We are looking for the future if you look at the roster, but i think we could still make a run at the playoffs. And in MLB, making the playoffs gives you a legit chance of winning it all.
 
With the talent in the minors taking years to develop and such a big part of future success, i dont think you 'punt" on a season in MLB and rebuild for the future like football and basketball. So, so, so many more nuances that that which take years to develop.

We got younger for sure, got rid of a cornerstone piece, but we have allot of good

Yeah. I love our farm system too. But I disagree that this team will compete this season.


pitching still and a ton of young but very good tallent. We are looking for the future if you look at the roster, but i think we could still make a run at the playoffs. And in MLB, making the playoffs gives you a legit chance of winning it all.
 
I prefer to call this affliction mildly imbalanced..


Sale, Quintana and others along with hitting on a few draft picks put the ChiSox in a great position going forward, Very similar to what the tribe did in dealing Joe Carter back in the day.

This team has seventeen billion ss prospects and maybe one outfielder prospect. Very unbalanced to say the least.

Would like to see Jose go for legitimate outfield prospects. Again, the team is not constructed to make a playoff run this season.

Tribe could be right back in the mix as soon as 2023.
 
A lot of fans keep talking about the Sale trade as an example of what we should do with Jose.

Have we all gone insane?

This is what Chicago got out of the Sale trade.

Moncado, who in the four seasons since has had one superb season....5+ WAR...and a few okay years. Hes had one year in which he was much more than a league average hitter. If he hadn't signed a long term contract, he would be in arby with the same amount of control we still have with Jose.

Kopech made four starts three years ago, and they were mostly ugly. He is now being tried in the pen.

The other two....one was traded for cash considerations, the other is out of baseball.

Thats what we want to get out of JRam? If we made that exact trade today, we would get a lot less production...14.9 fWAR to 9.2, if you use the last three seasons as a base....and we'd be in the same spot, three years of control left.

I want no part of that kind of trade.

If you would have read what I said, I said Sale "and others" contributed to their rebuild. Did you have a problem with the Joe Carter trade as well?

And the final chapter on Kopech and Moncada has hardly been written. And what exactly is Sale doing these days?
 

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