2021 Minor League Thread

[CATS44]

No, Wham.

We haven't been trading for proven vets. We have been trading for high end prospects with a bit of underwhelming MLB production, with the exception of Reyes. In some cases, their former teams showed some impatience, and we took advantage. In others, they had a glut at a position, and we cherry picked.

What I'm talking about now is trading for proven young vets with three years or so of control....guys that are gonna cost us about what it does to sign older vets like Hernandez and Eddie.

Names like Haniger, Dominic Smith, Ian Happ. The kind of trade we made for Miller.

The reverse of what you said is equally true...in two ways.

What would this team look like if we had traded Zimmer, Chang, Bradley, Greg Allen, and Naquin after his fluke rookie season?

All of them had readily seen flaws that fans...and GMs...were eager to overlook.

And, what would the past five years have looked like if we hadn't traded Frazier, Sheffield, Heller, and Mejia. Certainly no World Series appearance and fewer playoff appearances. We got outstanding value for those prospects, value which they never returned for their new clubs.

But, yet again, nobody has made a list of which of our Rule Five eligible they are willing to turn loose for no return.

Plus, the progress being made by some not previously thought about is making that list longer.

There is another point. If we are forced to put a slew of prospects on the 40 man who are not yet ready to help the Big club, it severely limits the players available to compete in the division next year.

We HAVE to trade away some good prospects before November. We have NO choice.

 

[Derek]

No, Wham.

We haven't been trading for proven vets. We have been trading for high end prospects with a bit of underwhelming MLB production, with the exception of Reyes. In some cases, their former teams showed some impatience, and we took advantage. In others, they had a glut at a position, and we cherry picked.

What I'm talking about now is trading for proven young vets with three years or so of control....guys that are gonna cost us about what it does to sign older vets like Hernandez and Eddie.

Names like Haniger, Dominic Smith, Ian Happ. The kind of trade we made for Miller.

The reverse of what you said is equally true...in two ways.

What would this team look like if we had traded Zimmer, Chang, Bradley, Greg Allen, and Naquin after his fluke rookie season?

All of them had readily seen flaws that fans...and GMs...were eager to overlook.

And, what would the past five years have looked like if we hadn't traded Frazier, Sheffield, Heller, and Mejia. Certainly no World Series appearance and fewer playoff appearances. We got outstanding value for those prospects, value which they never returned for their new clubs.

But, yet again, nobody has made a list of which of our Rule Five eligible they are willing to turn loose for no return.

Plus, the progress being made by some not previously thought about is making that list longer.

There is another point. If we are forced to put a slew of prospects on the 40 man who are not yet ready to help the Big club, it severely limits the players available to compete in the division next year.

We HAVE to trade away some good prospects before November. We have NO choice.

I don't believe any of those guys outside of Zimmer ever had any real value.

 

[CATS44]

Chang and Allen were part of the package for the Lucroy trade that never happened.

All of them at some point between 2016 and 2017 were top five prospects in our org. All were assigned a FV of at least 45, putting them in the same range as so many of the prospects we now hold so dear. Naquin was coming of a 2016 season in which he was third for ROY.

They had the same kind of value that our present prospects have.

 

[Derek]

Chang and Allen were part of the package for the Lucroy trade that never happened.

All of them at some point between 2016 and 2017 were top five prospects in our org. All were assigned a FV of at least 45, putting them in the same range as so many of the prospects we now hold so dear. Naquin was coming of a 2016 season in which he was third for ROY.

They had the same kind of value that our present prospects have.

They were in the package along with our top prospect, Mejia. Mejia was providing the bulk of the value in that deal.

I just don't believe you would have been able to get anything worthwhile for Chang and Allen at any point. As secondary guys along with a headliner, sure, but I don't believe that means they had any real value.

I think Allen provided more value to our organization as a player than he ever would have returned in a trade. I believe we'll eventually be able to say the same for Chang. That's not to say they'll provide a ton, but I don't think you would have required anything of use in a trade at all.

 

[CATS44]

Then you dont think several highly thought of prospects we have now will bring back much in trade, because all of the above, including Allen, Chang, and Bradley, were just as highly rated then as ours are now.

 

[CATS44]

Lets look at 2016 and compare it to today.

Two kids that everybody is gaga over today are Miller (24 yrs old) and Arias (21). They have respective FVs of 45 and 45+. Lets even look at Valera, 21, with an FV of 50.

In 2016 Chang was 21 with an FV of 45.

Allen was 23 with an FV of 50.

Bradley was 20 with an FV of 45.

Those guys had just as much value in trade as ours do today.

 

[Derek]

Then you dont think several highly thought of prospects we have now will bring back much in trade, because all of the above, including Allen, Chang, and Bradley, were just as highly rated then as ours are now.

I don't believe any of the names mentioned were ever better prospects than anyone currently in our top 10.

MLB.com had Chang and Allen as #9 and #19 in our organization during the 2016 season (when the Lucroy trade fell through). Their trade value was simply never that great, as is the case with most prospects. Most of the time, you're better of seeing what they can provide for you as a player.

ETA: Really not trying to be a dick (I swear ) but would you please start using the reply function when you're talking to somebody? Or at least tag them in the post.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Lets look at 2016 and compare it to today.

Two kids that everybody is gaga over today are Miller (24 yrs old) and Arias (21). They have respective FVs of 45 and 45+. Lets even look at Valera, 21, with an FV of 50.

In 2016 Chang was 21 with an FV of 45.

Allen was 23 with an FV of 50.

Bradley was 20 with an FV of 45.

Those guys had just as much value in trade as ours do today.

I can give you that Chang may have had value to certain clubs in 2016, as power from a MIF always plays.

It feels like you are taking FV a bit too strictly here. I'd argue (and I'm guessing @Derek--who I think you're trying to respond to here even though you didn't quote him--feels the same way) that FV is grossly overrating Greg Allen's value in 2016.

I guarantee you Valera is worth more in a trade than Greg Allen ever was.

 

[Kevalier]

Baseball America released their list of MLB Prospects with the Best Scouting Tools Entering 2021. A few familiar faces are included:

 

[BimboColesHair]

Lets look at 2016 and compare it to today.

Two kids that everybody is gaga over today are Miller (24 yrs old) and Arias (21). They have respective FVs of 45 and 45+. Lets even look at Valera, 21, with an FV of 50.

In 2016 Chang was 21 with an FV of 45.

Allen was 23 with an FV of 50.

Bradley was 20 with an FV of 45.

Those guys had just as much value in trade as ours do today.

Arias, Miller, and Valera hadn't been seen by scouts in game action since 2019 up until Spring Training this year.

Also, I love FanGraphs. But they are way, way behind some other popular baseball sites when it comes to prospects and grading prospects. Also, the industry does not use FV to value prospects...

 

[BimboColesHair]

Seriously.

If someone from FanGraphs went and watched Arias and came away from seeing him as a current 30 hit tool (which is what they have for him) I am going to question what that person was watching and if they've ever seen a baseball game before.

 

[MadThinker88]

Just so everyone is on the same page - I will bring back the posts with the various organization records standings (by accumulated full season minors record). I will create a separate thread and post the standings on a weekly/ bi-weekly basis.

For those unaware of what I am referring to, here was the final standings for the 2019 season (using the 4 full season minor league affiliates for each organization):

		As of end of 9/2/2019
Rank	……	Franchise	……	…….W	……	..L	……	…..Pct		……	"+ / -"
1	…..	Tampa Bay Rays	……	326	……	225	……	0.5917		……	101​
2	…..	Arizona Diamondbacks	……	308	……	242	……	0.5600		……	66​
3	…..	Texas Rangers	……	304	……	247	……	0.5517		……	57​
4	…..	Los Angeles Dodgers	……	302	……	249	……	0.5481		……	53​
5	…..	Houston Astros	……	301	……	253	……	0.5433		……	48​
6	…..	Minnesota Twins	……	298	……	254	……	0.5399		……	44​
7	…..	Milwaukee Brewers	……	296	……	261	……	0.5314		……	35​
8	…..	Pittsburgh Pirates	……	287	……	266	……	0.5190		……	21​
9	…..	San Diego Padres	……	286	……	267	……	0.5172		……	19​
10	…..	New York Yankees	……	288	……	264	……	0.5217		……	24​
11	…..	Toronto Blue Jays	……	282	……	271	……	0.5099		……	11​
12	…..	Baltimore Orioles	……	279	……	275	……	0.5036		……	4​
13	…..	Chicago White Sox	……	275	……	271	……	0.5037		……	4​
14	…..	Cleveland Indians	……	278	……	275	……	0.5027		……	3​
15	…..	Seattle Mariners	……	276	……	280	……	0.4964		……	-4​
16	…..	Miami Marlins	……	271	……	275	……	0.4963		……	-4​
17	…..	Philadelphia Phillies	……	272	……	281	……	0.4919		……	-9​
18	…..	Washington Nationals	……	276	……	280	……	0.4964		……	-4​
19	…..	Oakland Athletics	……	270	……	285	……	0.4865		……	-15​
20	…..	Colorado Rockies	……	269	……	288	……	0.4829		……	-19​
21	…..	Kansas City Royals	……	266	……	287	……	0.4810		……	-21​
22	…..	San Francisco Giants	……	271	……	285	……	0.4874		……	-14​
23	…..	New York Mets	……	262	……	288	……	0.4764		……	-26​
24	…..	Atlanta Braves	……	263	……	290	……	0.4756		……	-27​
25	…..	Chicago Cubs	……	264	……	288	……	0.4783		……	-24​
26	…..	Detroit Tigers	……	257	……	295	……	0.4656		……	-38​
27	…..	Cincinnati Reds	……	244	……	306	……	0.4436		……	-62​
28	…..	Boston Red Sox	……	244	……	310	……	0.4404		……	-66​
29	…..	St. Louis Cardinals	……	240	……	309	……	0.4372		……	-69​
30	…..	Los Angeles Angels	……	233	……	321	……	0.4206		……	-88​

Items of Note:
Only top 14 clubs have .500 or better records
Most games played by organization: 557 by Milwaukee & Colorado
Least games played by organization: 546 by ChiSox & Miami
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 change this time around: instead of Sunday posts, I will likely post on Mondays (since most minor leagues are running Tuesday thru Sunday series). That way I capture the entire series before posting an update.

 

[Kevalier]

With Valera now in the top 100, the Tribe currently has four prospects in MLB Pipeline's Top 100:

Nolan Jones (30)
Tyler Freeman (85)
Bo Naylor (99)
George Valera (100)

The first three were all drafted by the organization, while Valera was signed as an international free agent. Encouraging to see.

 

[Derek]

With Valera now in the top 100, the Tribe currently has four prospects in MLB Pipeline's Top 100:

Nolan Jones (30)
Tyler Freeman (85)
Bo Naylor (99)
George Valera (100)

The first three were all drafted by the organization, while Valera was signed as an international free agent. Encouraging to see.

Baseball America:
Jones - 37
Freeman - 72

Although, as @BimboColesHair (I think), has stated before, the Tribe's prospects tend to fly under the radar because of how the organization operates. Also, nobody has had eyes on anyone really since 2019.

 

[CDAV45]

With Valera now in the top 100, the Tribe currently has four prospects in MLB Pipeline's Top 100:

Nolan Jones (30)
Tyler Freeman (85)
Bo Naylor (99)
George Valera (100)

The first three were all drafted by the organization, while Valera was signed as an international free agent. Encouraging to see.

That's awesome! I can't help but wonder where Arias will end up if he posts numbers close to what he did in 2019. If he posts another season of 302/339/470/809 with 17 HR in 477 AB then he might shoot way up the charts. You marry that slash line with his defense and you're talking about one of the best SS prospects in baseball. This system is f'n loaded!