2021 NBA Draft Safari

[foucault87]

Calling him “average at everything else” seems like a stretch to me.

The appeal with Green IMO, when you watch his tape, is he has all the tools to be a good all around player. Couple that with his work ethic and you would imagine he is going to be a good all around player at the end of the day.

Green shows flashes on defense that he can guard at a high level. He’s opportunistic and certainly more so help side, where you will see if jump passing lanes or poke balls away on defenders that lose site of him. It is more coaching it in to him to me. He does it enough to think he can develop and his all around game more resembles someone like Beal, even against pro competition. Beal was a better rebounder in college but everything else looks a lot the same. Solid scorer, better than advertised passer for a "scorer", produces defensive stats, efficiently scores for a wing.

When you consider the production against pros, relative to Green's age and looking at how explosive he is as an athlete, I just think his ceiling is exceptionally high.

If he is dynamic enough to be a full on engine then I can see him as a top 3 guy with Barnes and Mobley. How does his vision compare to say Collin? I love everything he does but what keeps Collin at a good second option and not a potential first is his limited vision (which i dont see as something you can just develop with hard work)

 

[Derek]

Well yes results matter one hundred percent.we celebrate the title even the process had many mistakes along the way. I don't see trading for one as the sane as buying lottery tickets blindly. I think it is a rush yes. But disaster? You won't know for years.

Bad decisions lead to bad results more often than not

 

[Dimeboy1]

The give up of the 2022 keeps me up at night. First thing that matters is how good you think we are this coming year and this front office likes our team more than I do, even if we add a dude. I think we need at least one more year of tank and another dude next year.

Last time a bad Cleveland team gave up next years #1 was for Brady Quinn in 2007 and somehow the Cowboys got our one lousy pick in 20 years cause of a miracle season. Don’t see it, we still have one of the bottom 5-6 rosters in the league.

 

[Nathan S]

At 6-14 I take the upside risk on the latter. (Would take Wagner/Kuminga/Barnes over Kispert in this range)

At 1-5, as long as they’re good size for their position and decent to plus athlete, I’m taking the former always. (Would take Cade over Barnes/Kuminga in this range)

Ok, but "decent to plus athlete" relative to what? I'm having a hard time seeing how Cade's not the least athletic lottery wing in recent memory. Luka's the tempting counterexample, but even he was significantly stronger and more explosive at the same age.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

You can’t win a title without an engine though. What team has won a title in the modern era without a truly dynamic offensive player?

Two way wings are certainly valuable but I want a Kobe Bryant type a lot more than I want Khris Middleton.

I would too. But in that example, it's Kobe who is the two-way wing (First All-Defensive team) and Middleton who is more the one dimensional scorer.

And when was the last time an NBA team has won a title without a long, two-way wing?

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Ok so if Cade falls to 3 then you don't think it's a disaster? Right now the Cavs are a bad basketball team with an owner that has a history of getting way too involved in basketball decisions, who does not value the position of general manager. To me getting a future all star ( hopefully) can't be viewed as a disaster. Yes I would much rather keep the 22 first. But to me, a disaster is Gilbert making basketball decisions such as extending Love, trading for Jarret Jack and Earl Clark in free agency. Those type of moves are a disaster because they lack any direction in roster building.
Altman could be fired just like that, but let's not pretend Dan has a history of doing proper GM searches, and that the next guy would not be a Gilbert puppet or be more qualified.
I dont think Cade is a perfect prospect by any means, but I think it is reasonable to say he could with good Health and hard work have a chance to become an all star wing, with pg skills. Yes I would like to keep the 22 first rounder, but Cade, Garland, Okoro Allen ( Sexton possible trade added assists) is not a horrible place to be in if you can add the rights vets via trade and mle free agents.

Hopefully, if Cade falls to 3, some other team is enamored with him, trades us some great assets, and we walk away with Barnes + a lot of stuff.

That's my dream scenario.

 

[daddywags]

I like Barnes, but I'll be disappointed if we don't come away with one of Cade, Mobley, Green or Suggs in this draft.

 

[Nathan S]

Off topic, but the last few games of the U19 World Championships are live on youtube today and tomorrow.

Holmgren and Baldwin for Team USA are likely top-5 picks next year, and their teammates Kennedy Chandler and Jaden Ivey are also highly-regarded 2022 prospects. They face Canada in the first semifinal (11:00 AM Eastern time), whose monster center Zach Edey has been dominating the competition so far. Canada also has a top wing prospect in Caleb Houstan.

In the other semifinal, France and likely 2023 #1 pick Victor Wembanyama faces Serbia and 2022 lottery pick Nikola Jovic at 2:00 PM Eastern.

 

[ajz20]

Bad decisions lead to bad results more often than not

True, but we don't know it's a bad decision. All we know is it comes with risk.you think it is a bad decision because you don't think Cade is worthy of the pick or trading up for. But to say it is a bad decision is conjecture at this point. If Detroit tricks you into giving away an asset then yes it's not good. That we can agree on. But you are assuming that is the case . It could be Det had both players on the same tier and is willing to take either with another number one pick.

then is the question is, is trading away the 22 pick ( we don't know the protection) worth the risk?

 

[Derek]

True, but we don't know it's a bad decision. All we know is it comes with risk.you think it is a bad decision because you don't think Cade is worthy of the pick or trading up for. But to say it is a bad decision is conjecture at this point. If Detroit tricks you into giving away an asset then yes it's not good. That we can agree on. But you are assuming that is the case . It could be Det had both players on the same tier and is willing to take either with another number one pick.

then is the question is, is trading away the 22 pick ( we don't know the protection) worth the risk?

You need to look back at the proposed scenario that started this discussion.

 

[ajz20]

You need to look back at the proposed scenario that started this discussion.

Correct me if I am wrong, but we agree that a team being tricked into giving away an asset is never a good thing. The debate here is wether trading away a future one to get the first pick would be a disaster by the organization
Cade is a valued asset by many nba gms, so to maximize value Det will look to trade the pick vs just selecting Mobley at one most likely if they decide to pass on Cade. The Cavs would not be the only team making offers.
Now the question is should he cavs make that move? It really depends on how high they view Cade at one or maybe even Green vs just selecting Mobley. What is their opinion of the 22 draft? What other moves do they have on the table? I just don't think it can be labeled as a disaster of a move based on all the possible outcomes until it plays out.

 

[Derek]

Correct me if I am wrong, but we agree that a team being tricked into giving away an asset is never a good thing. The debate here is wether trading away a future one to get the first pick would be a disaster by the organization
Cade is a valued asset by many nba gms, so to maximize value Det will look to trade the pick vs just selecting Mobley at one most likely if they decide to pass on Cade. The Cavs would not be the only team making offers.
Now the question is should he cavs make that move? It really depends on how high they view Cade at one or maybe even Green vs just selecting Mobley. What is their opinion of the 22 draft? What other moves do they have on the table? I just don't think it can be labeled as a disaster of a move based on all the possible outcomes until it plays out.

The scenario was that the Pistons would rather draft Mobley. If we facilitate a scenario where they get to pick the guy they want while taking one of our picks, that's disastrous decision-making. No question about it.

 

[ajz20]

The scenario was that the Pistons would rather draft Mobley. If we facilitate a scenario where they get to pick the guy they want while taking one of our picks, that's disastrous decision-making. No question about it.

Yes but I think we both know they are likely to get a ton of offers for the number one pick if it is indeed available. It has already been reported that a ton of teams including the Cavs have called. For the Cavs to secure Cade or Green at this point it is likely they have to trade up.
I don't think it is a simple nah we can't make that move because Det gets the guy they want and an asset. That is the reward for winning the lottery. You have the power.
Now if Detroit has no real offers then yeah you can call their bluff, but that is a huge assumption to make.
It's not an easy decision as you may need to outbid other teams to obtain the number one pick. But it is one that should be seriously considered. This team needs to look carefully at all options that are on the table.

 

[Derek]

Yes but I think we both know they are likely to get a ton of offers for the number one pick if it is indeed available. It has already been reported that a ton of teams including the Cavs have called. For the Cavs to secure Cade or Green at this point it is likely they have to trade up.
I don't think it is a simple nah we can't make that move because Det gets the guy they want and an asset. That is the reward for winning the lottery. You have the power.
Now if Detroit has no real offers then yeah you can call their bluff, but that is a huge assumption to make.
It's not an easy decision as you may need to outbid other teams to obtain the number one pick. But it is one that should be seriously considered. This team needs to look carefully at all options that are on the table.

It actually is an easy decision.

Let someone else trade up. Detroit isn't getting Mobley if they trade down past us.

Giving up an asset while allowing the team you're trading with to get the guy they actually want will always be a terrible decision to make.

 

[Benway]

Holmgren and Baldwin for Team USA are likely top-5 picks next year

triggered