2021 Series #23 | Indians @ Cubs | June 21-22

[CDAV45]

So you have to get that I am a pitching enthusiast. It is about the pitching not the pitcher per say. Don't take it so personal.

I don't know Eli, and I respect him TOTALLY for making it to the big leagues, he is one of the rare human beings capable of it. Hats off to him and ALL BIG LEAGUE PITCHERS.

But that is totally different then what he throws up to the plate. And something most folks who post her just can't get. They all take it so personal when I talk about the quality of the pitches.

To each his own I guess

I share the same sentiment towards Eli. I'm happy for him and wish him success, but he is benefitting from others' bad luck at the moment. The old saying that "sometimes it's better to be lucky than good" appropriately applies in the case of Eli.

He's the type that's easy to root for. Probably due to his pedestrian stuff and the underdog status that seems to describe him. I think credit should be given where it's due, and Eli has had a very good minor league career even though his physical abilities are limited.

 

[Criznit]

I share the same sentiment towards Eli. I'm happy for him and wish him success, but he is benefitting from others' bad luck at the moment. The old saying that "sometimes it's better to be lucky than good" appropriately applies in the case of Eli.

He's the type that's easy to root for. Probably due to his pedestrian stuff and the underdog status that seems to describe him. I think credit should be given where it's due, and Eli has had a very good minor league career even though his physical abilities are limited.

Maybe Eli should pick Bieber's brain a bit. A knuckle-curve perhaps..

 

[CATS44]

Lots of complaints about our inability to develop hitters, but my opinion is that it is more about the type of hitters we've drafted than about development.

While complaining about lack of development we ooh and aah about the same kind of prospects that so often fail in development.

Case in point...Nolan Jones. Big guy who can't make consistent contact and can't hit same handed pitchers, but, oh my, that minor league OPS.

Sounds like Bradley Zimmer.

 

[CDAV45]

I understood it lol so let's say it differently..

More or less, the Indians are way less willing to move prospects this season. If they make a traded it was because the team we traded with was willing to trade for the prospects the Indians didn't have on their long untouchable list...

You know this or suspect it? Frankly, they have more MIF depth than an organization needs and if they can use that to acquire a SP then it wouldn't surprise me at all. The trick is to not trade the best one(s). I don't think(suspect) it will be is a short term rental. I believe they'll target someone that can stick in the middle or back of this rotation for a few years while being relatively inexpensive and not costing the best prospect(s) in the system.

There is no f'n way that I would give Jones up for Miley.........and I would give Jones up.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

It's easy to fall in love with power pitchers. Guys like Randy Johnson, Nolan Ryan, and Verlander had talent that was obvious. They miss a lot of bats.
But the "crafty" pitchers, like Eli Morgan is learning to be, have a very important place in the game too. Guys like Mike Cuellar, Jamie Moyer, and even Wade Miley get by on location, pace, and pitch mix. Greg Maddux made the Hall of Fame because of pinpoint control and mediocre stuff.
If I had my druthers, I like to have a crafty pitcher in the regular rotation. Mixing one of those guys in with power pitchers in a series can be a big advantage.

 

[Criznit]

It's easy to fall in love with power pitchers. Guys like Randy Johnson, Nolan Ryan, and Verlander had talent that was obvious. They miss a lot of bats.
But the "crafty" pitchers, like Eli Morgan is learning to be, have a very important place in the game too. Guys like Mike Cuellar, Jamie Moyer, and even Wade Miley get by on location, pace, and pitch mix. Greg Maddux made the Hall of Fame because of pinpoint control and mediocre stuff.
If I had my druthers, I like to have a crafty pitcher in the regular rotation. Mixing one of those guys in with power pitchers in a series can be a big advantage.

Maddux's fastballs had A LOT of movement. Trouble for Eli is, he has one "good" pitch his changeup. If he could mix in a decent breaking pitch he could have something. But ML hitters are so good. He'll have to work the edges with his FB to keep them off balance while they wait for a mistake or his current slider. When he misses with that fastball it gets smacked because it is currently pretty straight.

Try adding a cut version or a splitter maybe.. Knuckle-curve.. One thing he has is guile or make up, very Tomlin like.

 

[CDAV45]

Every type of prospect has a high rate of failure. Tyler Freemans are as rare as the Nolan Jones. Thing is, if(big one) Jones realizes his potential, he will have more of an offensive impact than Freeman will/can. The value of extra base hits and power has always been present in the game, and no team or it's general fan base wants to see the punch and judy hitters that some around here seem endeered to. Me personally, I like to see a balance and don't really favor one over the other.

We can say "sounds like Bradley Zimmer" all we want, but it also sounds like Jim Thome. There are 2 extremes and trying to make a point using only one side of the equation seems ill fated IMO. The truth is that until recently Nolan Jones has been the most potent offensive player in the organization. The question is can he regain most of that description or at least enough of it to be a productive hitter in MLB? He's capable, but many others before him have been as well and failed.

 

[CDAV45]

Maybe Eli should pick Bieber's brain a bit. A knuckle-curve perhaps..

I honestly don't know if there is a pitch he could discover to make him any better. If he wants to be successful then he'll need to keep his pitches(whatever they are) in the outside part of the strike zone IMO.

 

[sportscoach]

Maddux's fastballs had A LOT of movement. Trouble for Eli is, he has one "good" pitch his changeup. If he could mix in a decent breaking pitch he could have something. But ML hitters are so good. He'll have to work the edges with his FB to keep them off balance while they wait for a mistake or his current slider. When he misses with that fastball it gets smacked because it is currently pretty straight.

Try adding a cut version or a splitter maybe.. Knuckle-curve.. One thing he has is guile or make up, very Tomlin like.

Essentially finding that proper mix of pitches is what will make him or break him being a legit starter or a Plutko type...Teams always need guys like Morgan, without a doubt, but the question we cannot answer now, is what type of pitcher will he become? He is the hardest to figure out since he is not the type of guy any scout likes, but gets the job done regardless of it...

 

[thestatman]

He didn't play in 2020... Also no one actually expects him to play 3B going forward... It's either OF or 1B in at the major league level...

Also Jones is a lower batting average high OPS type... In June, he has hit .238/.380/.460 with 11 BBs to 15 SOs, which is less than half of the SOs he had in May... Not sure how a career .845 OPS in the minors with the room to add on more opposite field power, is someone that wouldn't be a legit prospects. His shortcomings is his splits against lefties and 3B defense is below average... Who are your 20 prospects in front of Jones then?

His numbers are really bad this year and as you pointed out, he stinks defensively at third base. Very clumsy the couple times I watched him. Your "top prospect"
shouldn't be hitting 212 half way through the season. And striking out at a ridiculous clip. Just another example of the "experts" getting it wrong.

 

[sportscoach]

His numbers are really bad this year and as you pointed out, he stinks defensively at third base. Very clumsy the couple times I watched him. Your "top prospect"
shouldn't be hitting 212 half way through the season. And striking out at a ridiculous clip. Just another example of the "experts" getting it wrong.

Is an .840 OPS for the month of June a bad number? Most players starting this season had their numbers skewed especially those who didnt play for a year... I take how he finishes the season over that first month honestly. Lets talk in a few years since its too early for either of us to write him off or make him a saint...

 

[jup]

Comparing any statistic of Eli Morgan, with 11 career innings, to that of Trevor Bauer, with 1,285 innings, is one of the most incomprehensible things I've seen on this board.

By the way, I love this kid Ernie Clement.

Clement OBP: .357
Michael Brantley OBP: 356

Tooo funny !!!!

All you forgot was the @Tondo Ha Ha Ha

 

[jup]

I share the same sentiment towards Eli. I'm happy for him and wish him success, but he is benefitting from others' bad luck at the moment. The old saying that "sometimes it's better to be lucky than good" appropriately applies in the case of Eli.

He's the type that's easy to root for. Probably due to his pedestrian stuff and the underdog status that seems to describe him. I think credit should be given where it's due, and Eli has had a very good minor league career even though his physical abilities are limited.

The pitcher as a person (easy to root for)

The quality of the pitches whomever is throwing them (his pedestrian stuff).

Well said @CDAV45. It isn't personal.

 

[CDAV45]

His numbers are really bad this year and as you pointed out, he stinks defensively at third base. Very clumsy the couple times I watched him. Your "top prospect"
shouldn't be hitting 212 half way through the season. And striking out at a ridiculous clip. Just another example of the "experts" getting it wrong.

How do you know "the experts got it wrong"? You're jumping to conclusions with little evidence to support your overreaction. Yes, he's hitting .213 so far this season, but have you looked at his history? How is he currently trending? Does this bad, small sample negate what he has done up to this point? Do you honestly believe that Nolan Jones is, and always will be a .213 hitter? Look, I have no problem using Nolan Jones as a trade piece. I also have no problem keeping him and finding out what he is or isn't capable of. Either way, I don't for one instance think that his current .213 average is a reflection of his talent. I think he's destined for 1B, but Bimbo explained to me that he is perfectly capable in the OF as well and I believe him. My point is that it's way too early to jump to conclusions on Nolan Jones. Your concern is warranted, but I don't believe the condemnation is.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

The pitcher as a person (easy to root for)

The quality of the pitches whomever is throwing them (his pedestrian stuff).

Well said @CDAV45. It isn't personal.

We'll see what the Twins think about the quality of his pitches on Sunday. They will have been able to watch the video of his start against the Pirates and come up with a game plan. I think he kind of caught the Pirates by surprise. If Eli can get Nelson Cruz out twice I'll be impressed. I doubt Tito will let him face Cruz three times.

The Twins are 6th in scoring in the A.L. and 2nd in home runs per 9. Buxton is out, but this team will still represent a big challenge to Morgan and also Hentges since he's a lefty and their most dangerous bats hit right-handed. These are big starts for those two and also Mejia, who has been very good except for the first inning. If all three have reasonably successful starts this weekend it would be a great sign for the immediate future.