2021 Series #23 | Indians @ Cubs | June 21-22

[CATS44]

Nolan Jones compared to Thome?

Really?

Jim Thome makes my point. He was a contact hitter first. High BA with low K rate, who also had power that could be developed.

The opposite of guys like Jones and Zimmer. Even as a MLBer, Thome didn't strike out at a rate like these kids...career 24.7% K rate.

Thome at age 19...two levels...340 BA...15% K rate.

Age 20...AA/AAA....319...17%

Age 21...AA/AAA....329....25%.

He also got cups of coffee in Cleveland at ages 20 and 21.

See the trend? Start with contact, develop power.

So, anything less than 20 HRs is a Punch and Judy hitter? Fans won't like them? My guess is that right now our fans would love to see about three more Amed Rosarios in the lineup. Or Madrigal. Or Merrifield.

Now, I'm in no hurry to trade Jones, but we have multiple prospects that make consistent contact and have a higher chance of becoming viable MLB players, because they have a better foundation.

 

[KluberSociety]

Nolan Jones compared to Thome?

Really?

Jim Thome makes my point. He was a contact hitter first. High BA with low K rate, who also had power that could be developed.

The opposite of guys like Jones and Zimmer. Even as a MLBer, Thome didn't strike out at a rate like these kids...career 24.7% K rate.

Thome at age 19...two levels...340 BA...15% K rate.

Age 20...AA/AAA....319...17%

Age 21...AA/AAA....329....25%.

He also got cups of coffee in Cleveland at ages 20 and 21.

See the trend? Start with contact, develop power.

So, anything less than 20 HRs is a Punch and Judy hitter? Fans won't like them? My guess is that right now our fans would love to see about three more Amed Rosarios in the lineup. Or Madrigal. Or Merrifield.

Now, I'm in no hurry to trade Jones, but we have multiple prospects that make consistent contact and have a higher chance of becoming viable MLB players, because they have a better foundation.

Hitters strike out a ton more now mainly due to better pitching. You can hardly compare Thome's K stats with Jones's. Thome was usually close to the league lead in K%. Although also the Branyans of the world would get more playing time today. Problem is right now Jones would be more like Branyan without the power. I do hope he finds it but I see Jones as a lower K higher BB guy compared to Bradley at least.

 

[CATS44]

At least in the minors, Bradley could hit same handed pitching.

 

[CATS44]

Its kinda unfair to look at Morgan in comparison to our other starters in toto, because he wouldn't even be here, if it weren't for dire need.

If you look at our complete list of starters, Morgan is probably not even in the top ten. He has a limited arsenal with a plus change up. In order to succeed, he will need to maintain plus plus command, and probably need to develop a second plus pitch.

Consider that no matter how good he might look, he will not be in Cleveland once the rotation is fully operational. I could see him taking over a Plutko role...stashed in Columbus and making occasional spot starts for a few years, and then moving on.

I'm more interested in how Quantrill, Mejia, Hedges, and TMac look...and how Allen and Moss look, once they get healthy.

 

[Tondo]

Eli Morgan missed the entire ST, made 2 or 3 short ramp up starts in Columbus, then was thrown into a monsoon, made another start in AAA and called up again because of need.

Against PIT and CHC he got a 14/0 K/BB ratio in 8.2 IP after getting struck by a linedrive on his pitching elbow.

He's not even stretched out yet and is K'ing ML out, he's already better than Plutko. I've been impressed in non monsoon starts (flyball pitcher in a monsoon vs Blue Jays and our worst possible OF defense was the worst idea of this season).

 

[KluberSociety]

At least in the minors, Bradley could hit same handed pitching.

Jones is striking out under 20% of the time this month. Bradley has never been able to do so under 30% of the time for any extended period of time in AAA or MLB. It was just a rough start having not played real games for 2 years but there's indications that he's pulling out of it.

 

[CATS44]

I'm not dismissing Jones out of hand.

But his profile is very similar to several previous Tribe prospects that fans now complain were not developed by the org. Its a profile that tends to fail at a higher than normal rate.

You would be hard pressed to find an everyday MLB corner player who was as helpless against same handed pitchers in the minors as Jones has been.

His OPS against them has been...

.645
.733
.606
.597
.554

Zimmer wasn't much against lefties once he got to AA, but he was better than Jones....and his .604 career OPS vs lefties is testament to what happens once MLB lefties see guys like him.

But at least Zimmer has plus defense and speed. Jones has neither.

 

[Criznit]

Jones is striking out under 20% of the time this month. Bradley has never been able to do so under 30% of the time for any extended period of time in AAA or MLB. It was just a rough start having not played real games for 2 years but there's indications that he's pulling out of it.

Bradley is a K machine, but doesn't have the platoon issues Jones seems to have and Bradley's power is for real. Jones has hinted at it though. If you could put Jones's plate discipline into Bradley's body, you likely have a top 5 1st baseman in MLB.

 

[KluberSociety]

I didn't mean to dismiss the platoon issues. Even if he never overcomes them there's a room for platoon hitters who can play multiple positions. I think Jones has more future value because he has the potential to not be a K machine, as well as hit for decent OBP, so I guess my comment was sort of pre-emptively saying Bradley doesn't make Jones expendable. Bradley should continue getting his chance at the majors and Jones at the minors and we can perpetually re-assess. I do think the combination of Bradley and Jones made Bauers a lot more expendable though. Let's hope one can at least be decent at their job.

I will continue to strongly doubt Bradley being an everyday player until he is able to show me that he can keep up being a valuable player. Let's see what the league does to him over an extended period of time.

 

[sportscoach]

I didn't mean to dismiss the platoon issues. Even if he never overcomes them there's a room for platoon hitters who can play multiple positions. I think Jones has more future value because he has the potential to not be a K machine, as well as hit for decent OBP, so I guess my comment was sort of pre-emptively saying Bradley doesn't make Jones expendable. Bradley should continue getting his chance at the majors and Jones at the minors and we can perpetually re-assess. I do think the combination of Bradley and Jones made Bauers a lot more expendable though. Let's hope one can at least be decent at their job.

I will continue to strongly doubt Bradley being an everyday player until he is able to show me that he can keep up being a valuable player. Let's see what the league does to him over an extended period of time.

How Bradley does until the All-Star break, will make or break him some... If we are close in the standings near the trade deadline and Bradley is struggling I think we end up getting a rental bat...

 

[KluberSociety]

How Bradley does until the All-Star break, will make or break him some... If we are close in the standings near the trade deadline and Bradley is struggling I think we end up getting a rental bat...

I really don't think a rental bat is worth it considering the rest of our team. I guess if we're 15 games above 500 or something but I'd take 2 fill-in arms before my first bat. I'd really just rather roll with Bradley for most of the rest of the year and if he's absolute garbage maybe call up someone else.

 

[sportscoach]

I really don't think a rental bat is worth it considering the rest of our team. I guess if we're 15 games above 500 or something but I'd take 2 fill-in arms before my first bat. I'd really just rather roll with Bradley for most of the rest of the year and if he's absolute garbage maybe call up someone else.

It depends on the price as well... If we don't have to give up a top prospect for a rental MLB bat, then I don't think anyone would blame us for doing it. I want to see what Bradley can do as well, but if we are able to get to the playoffs, I think that could be way more valuable to the team as a whole. So it's a give and take there in my opinion. If Bradley is doing well near the trade deadline, we don't make the move. If he's below the Mendoza line plus we are still in striking range, and the rental is available for a reasonable price, we gotta go for it. I think the players need to know the FO will find reinforcements if they are in contention. I feel personally that breeds a winning environment..

 

[Obscured By Clouds]

Nolan Jones has been lousy since 2018. I have 20 Indian prospects rated ahead of him. when I watched him play in Akron. he was very clumsy at third base as well. This year he's a strike out machine hitting 212. Not my idea of a top prospect.

2018: .283/.40/.466/.871 as a 20 year old in A and A+

2019: .272/.409/.442/.851 as a 21 year old in A+ and AA

How in the hell is that 'lousy?'

I'm pretty sure that after claiming he has been lousy since 2018, and then stating that you have 20 prospects rated ahead of him, no one really cares.

 

[AZ_]

2018: .283/.40/.466/.871 as a 20 year old in A and A+

2019: .272/.409/.442/.851 as a 21 year old in A+ and AA

How in the hell is that 'lousy?'

I'm pretty sure that after claiming he has been lousy since 2018, and then stating that you have 20 prospects rated ahead of him, no one really cares.

Bad faith arguments are just the key to folks paying attention to him, and the only thing that happens now are more bad faith arguments to try and keep getting attention.

It’s never going to be a contrarian take based on logic, it’s going to be emotionally driven, followed with hope that Jones never learns to hit big league pitching, before returning to claim some sort of gratification.

 

[thestatman]

2018: .283/.40/.466/.871 as a 20 year old in A and A+

2019: .272/.409/.442/.851 as a 21 year old in A+ and AA

How in the hell is that 'lousy?'

I'm pretty sure that after claiming he has been lousy since 2018, and then stating that you have 20 prospects rated ahead of him, no one really cares.

You failed to mention that he struck out once every 3 plate appearances. You also failed to mention the kid is a complete hack defensively at third base as well.