2021 Series #6 | White Sox @ Indians | April 20, 2021

[Derek]

Derek:

A 6-8 left handed pitcher is already an outlier. One who throws as hard as he does with what looks to be a plus off speed pitch is an even bigger outlier.

When you are developing a kid with the physical gifts that Hentges has, you shoot for the highest outlier possible.

Would you rather have the Big Unit or Miller time? I'd choose the former.

Would you rather have the Big Unit Lite...otherwise known as the Medium Unit, or Miller time? Id still prefer the former.

Its easier to convert a failed starter into a back end reliever...esp one thats 6-8...than to convert a back end reliever back into a starter.

6'8 sure is an outlier, but that's irrelevant to predicting his success as a starter.

I'm really not sure what you're advocating for here. All I said was that his future is likely in the pen. Do you actually disagree with that being the most likely scenario?

Also, guess what? Randy Johnson, while walking a ton of guys, was still very successful as a starter throughout his minor league career.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Derek:

A 6-8 left handed pitcher is already an outlier. One who throws as hard as he does with what looks to be a plus off speed pitch is an even bigger outlier.

When you are developing a kid with the physical gifts that Hentges has, you shoot for the highest outlier possible.

Would you rather have the Big Unit or Miller time? I'd choose the former.

Would you rather have the Big Unit Lite...otherwise known as the Medium Unit, or Miller time? Id still prefer the former.

Its easier to convert a failed starter into a back end reliever...esp one thats 6-8...than to convert a back end reliever back into a starter.

The guy's spent 7 years in our farm system as a starter before getting called up this year.

His WHIP across all levels is 1.5. He got wrecked in Akron, posting a WHIP of 1.65, and an ERA over 5 in 26 starts.

I know fans get enamored with raw physical talent, but I would think Indians fans, out of everyone, would understand the value of someone who pitches well against the value of someone who just throws the ball hard. After seeing the successes of Cliff Lee, Corey Kluber, Shane Bieber et al, it should be plain as day to see the problems with Hentges.

I don't get why people are acting like the Indians never gave this guy a shot to be a starter. Is it just because he didn't do it at the major league level in front of your eyes?

Your last line is literally what the Indians have done. After 7 years in the minors as a starter, Hentges couldn't cut it. They are turning the failed starter into a reliever.

 

[Derek]

The guy's spent 7 years in our farm system as a starter before getting called up this year.

His WHIP across all levels is 1.5. He got wrecked in Akron, posting a WHIP of 1.65, and an ERA over 5 in 26 starts.

I know fans get enamored with raw physical talent, but I would think Indians fans, out of everyone, would understand the value of someone who pitches well against the value of someone who just throws the ball hard. After seeing the successes of Cliff Lee, Corey Kluber, Shane Bieber et al, it should be plain as day to see the problems with Hentges.

I don't get why people are acting like the Indians never gave this guy a shot to be a starter. Is it just because he didn't do it at the major league level in front of your eyes?

And I'm all for giving him an opportunity to start in Columbus this year. However, all signs currently point to the bullpen being his best chance to stick in the majors.

 

[CATS44]

I think its very clear what I'd like to see done with Hentges. I hope they show the same patience with him as they did with Lee, and Kluber, and Cookie. He's only 24.

His best shot right now to be in Cleveland is in the pen, but his best shot at making significant contribution may be as a starter.

I dont agree that somehow he is already...at age 24...a failed SP prospect. I also don't agree with argument that since he has been in the system so long, he should be viewed as a failed SP prospect.

He began when he was seventeen and threw 13 IP. I'm not gonna somehow count that against him. He also lost most of a year to TJS, which I dont count against him. And then there is last year.

He grew up in Minnesota, and kids up there dont get to play nearly as much baseball as they do in Southern California, and other warmer climes. When an org drafts a player from up north, esp a pitcher, they know that the kid starts way behind everybody else, and that he will take longer to develop.

They also know that a taller kid usually takes longer to settle in to proper, sustainable mechanics. And then there is the growth spurt he had after he began his pro career. Anybody who has dealt with a kid who plays a specialized position in the midst of a growth spurt knows that he tends to become a little doppier.

And then TJS.

Under all those conditions, I just don't see that he is that far behind what should be expected.

I want him to be placed in the best position to fulfill his highest possible long term value.

 

[sportscoach]

I think its very clear what I'd like to see done with Hentges. I hope they show the same patience with him as they did with Lee, and Kluber, and Cookie. He's only 24.

His best shot right now to be in Cleveland is in the pen, but his best shot at making significant contribution may be as a starter.

I dont agree that somehow he is already...at age 24...a failed SP prospect. I also don't agree with argument that since he has been in the system so long, he should be viewed as a failed SP prospect.

He began when he was seventeen and threw 13 IP. I'm not gonna somehow count that against him. He also lost most of a year to TJS, which I dont count against him. And then there is last year.

He grew up in Minnesota, and kids up there dont get to play nearly as much baseball as they do in Southern California, and other warmer climes. When an org drafts a player from up north, esp a pitcher, they know that the kid starts way behind everybody else, and that he will take longer to develop.

They also know that a taller kid usually takes longer to settle in to proper, sustainable mechanics. And then there is the growth spurt he had after he began his pro career. Anybody who has dealt with a kid who plays a specialized position in the midst of a growth spurt knows that he tends to become a little doppier.

And then TJS.

Under all those conditions, I just don't see that he is that far behind what should be expected.

I want him to be placed in the best position to fulfill his highest possible long term value.

He will only get relief appearances in the pros this season. I doubt he stays up in Cleveland whole season anyways. At Columbus they will work him as a starter, but as @Derek said, it's very unlikely he stays as a starter at the pro level full time.

 

[Derek]

I think its very clear what I'd like to see done with Hentges. I hope they show the same patience with him as they did with Lee, and Kluber, and Cookie. He's only 24.

His best shot right now to be in Cleveland is in the pen, but his best shot at making significant contribution may be as a starter.

I dont agree that somehow he is already...at age 24...a failed SP prospect. I also don't agree with argument that since he has been in the system so long, he should be viewed as a failed SP prospect.

He began when he was seventeen and threw 13 IP. I'm not gonna somehow count that against him. He also lost most of a year to TJS, which I dont count against him. And then there is last year.

He grew up in Minnesota, and kids up there dont get to play nearly as much baseball as they do in Southern California, and other warmer climes. When an org drafts a player from up north, esp a pitcher, they know that the kid starts way behind everybody else, and that he will take longer to develop.

They also know that a taller kid usually takes longer to settle in to proper, sustainable mechanics. And then there is the growth spurt he had after he began his pro career. Anybody who has dealt with a kid who plays a specialized position in the midst of a growth spurt knows that he tends to become a little doppier.

And then TJS.

Under all those conditions, I just don't see that he is that far behind what should be expected.

I want him to be placed in the best position to fulfill his highest possible long term value.

I really don't think it's clear what you want to be done with Hentges. You've vaguely stated you want the organization to be patient while placing him in the best position to fulfill his highest long-term value.

Do you want him starting in Columbus? If so, I don't think anybody is really against that. We don't need him in the MLB pen right now. However, it seems as though he's more likely to end up in the bullpen sooner or later.

 

[xmasbuck]

will we be playing tonight?

 

[Andrew Scheid]

This team is wildly inconsistent in terms of entertainment value:
- Watching Karinchak and Clase pitch is absolutely riveting and appointment viewing.
- Watching Bieber pitch is a treasure that I hope never to take for granted.
- Watching a sizable amount of this lineup take fastballs down the plate and hack at offspeed slop in the other batter's box has me deliberating the benefits of creating an Excel spreadsheet to calculate the hours of life spent watching this team that I'll never get back.

 

[Gson]

I really don't think it's clear what you want to be done with Hentges. You've vaguely stated you want the organization to be patient while placing him in the best position to fulfill his highest long-term value.

Do you want him starting in Columbus? If so, I don't think anybody is really against that. We don't need him in the MLB pen right now. However, it seems as though he's more likely to end up in the bullpen sooner or later.

@DerekG123 ... it's pretty clear @CATS44 can define what direction Hentges will go from this point forward.. He is a pen arm at the ML level.. he may stay and grow into the spot.. or may be stretched out to more than one inning while working out of the pen.. and / or may be fully stretched out and counted upon to fulfill the role of spot starter (second half of a double header if today's game is postponed?).. to full time rotation member..

It's too early to say.. but it isn't too early to say.. Hentges has good stuff.. major league level stuff. there is a chance he can contribute.. We'll see..

 

[WhoAzcue]

Have you heard some of the announcers around the league? Indians announcers at least have some personality to them. I've heard some that are so monotone, that I turned off the game... Indians announcers actually aren't that bad at all. We are just ready for a different set of banter at times.

When given the option, I listen to the opponent announcers exclusively. I've done this for years; an MLBtv subscription makes this a simple matter. My ears bleed when I listen to our own guys. Mediocrity defines much of what you hear in most booths, but the Cleveland crews can't even attain that. There is virtue in listening to adversaries as well: you learn how little (or how much) people know our team; you come to understand where the perception of our team and players comes from; you get frank opinions of our players; you are reminded about the high regard others have for the organization, and you are comforted by the knowledge that, no matter how bad they are, the announcers will change soon.

 

[WhoAzcue]

I’d be shocked if Hentges amounted to anything as a starter. His future appears to be in the pen.

I think this is correct. And if he can't throw that breaking ball for strikes, he won't have much of a future period. His fastball may be "electric" and it may come from a high angle, but it doesn't have any movement, so he has to have something else in his arsenal so major league hitters aren't sitting on it.

 

[NorthCoastBias]

 

[WhoAzcue]

What do you tell players who are doing everything right, but not being rewarded?

I beg them...BEG THEM...not to do anything different. Players who get persistently bad results regardless of process will start changing things, and that's when you have a real problem. I'm seriously worried about this. How many line drives end up in gloves before you start consciously (or unconsciously) trying to "lift" the ball and mess up your swing? I especially worry about younger players like Naylor, who already is pressing to make up for things.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I beg them...BEG THEM...not to do anything different. Players who get persistently bad results regardless of process will start changing things, and that's when you have a real problem. I'm seriously worried about this. How many line drives end up in gloves before you start consciously (or unconsciously) trying to "lift" the ball and mess up your swing? I especially worry about younger players like Naylor, who already is pressing to make up for things.

I agree.

Sounds an awful lot like Trevor Bauer.

@jup

 

[CDAV45]

If you'll check team statistics, you'll find the Indians right near the top of MLB rankings in homers per plate appearance.

How do they do that without home run hitters?

Swing for the fences Bruh!