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2021 Series #6 | White Sox @ Indians | April 20, 2021

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Tonight's postponement sucks. Here the White Sox were going to have to use a spot starter and we miss it. Just another sucky thing to add to this year's bad luck. The only luck we've had--and I'm not minimizing this--is how fortunate we've been with our health. Guys are dropping all over baseball from various maladies and we're lucky enough to see our guys flailing away so much that only the fans are unhealthy, sick to death of them already. :p
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
The guy's spent 7 years in our farm system as a starter before getting called up this year.

His WHIP across all levels is 1.5. He got wrecked in Akron, posting a WHIP of 1.65, and an ERA over 5 in 26 starts.

I know fans get enamored with raw physical talent, but I would think Indians fans, out of everyone, would understand the value of someone who pitches well against the value of someone who just throws the ball hard. After seeing the successes of Cliff Lee, Corey Kluber, Shane Bieber et al, it should be plain as day to see the problems with Hentges.

I don't get why people are acting like the Indians never gave this guy a shot to be a starter. Is it just because he didn't do it at the major league level in front of your eyes?

Your last line is literally what the Indians have done. After 7 years in the minors as a starter, Hentges couldn't cut it. They are turning the failed starter into a reliever.
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He's 24 yrs old for crying out loud. He had TJS. He's extremely tall. He throws extremely hard. These are all things that point toward more development time needed. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. I think it's a bit too early to relegate him to the BP. Clearly that's an option going forward and right now he could be exactly what we need in the BP(LHRP), but there no reason to throw the towel in on him being a SP IMO.

I mean even a "pitcher" like Civale is making adjustments to find a good mix of consistency and performance. Aaron has had the ability to throw strikes consistently so he's trying to improve his stuff while Hentges is kind of the opposite. He's trying to harness what he has to throw more strikes. Both developments can happen. The odds of it being successful vary tremendously, but they have to find out.
 
CDAV45 said:
He's 24 yrs old for crying out loud. He had TJS. He's extremely tall. He throws extremely hard. These are all things that point toward more development time needed. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. I think it's a bit too early to relegate him to the BP. Clearly that's an option going forward and right now he could be exactly what we need in the BP(LHRP), but there no reason to throw the towel in on him being a SP IMO.

I mean even a "pitcher" like Civale is making adjustments to find a good mix of consistency and performance. Aaron has had the ability to throw strikes consistently so he's trying to improve his stuff while Hentges is kind of the opposite. He's trying to harness what he has to throw more strikes. Both developments can happen. The odds of it being successful vary tremendously, but they have to find out.
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I'd say keeping him at A-ball for five seasons was exactly that. They even gave him a full season of AA ball and he failed miserably as a starter, with a K/BB rate of under 2.

I'd prefer to change what we're doing. If he can be effective in the MLB out of the bullpen, that's awesome. Effective is certainly better than what he's been his entire professional career up until this point.

Maybe he finds his effectiveness in bullpen situations, and then can try to apply it to becoming a starter again, a la Carrasco and Carmona/Hernandez.

If you're arguing that, rather than pitch out of the bullpen in 2021, he should be starting in the minor leagues, I disagree with you, and apparently so does the Indians organization. But hey, maybe you're right. Maybe he needs more than seven years as a minor league starter to figure it out. To me, this isn't a move I'm going to second guess. Seven years is a long freaking time to try and put it together. Time to switch up the approach.
 
Just a thought regarding Sam Hentges - might his call up over the weekend (& remaining in the majors/ on the DL the rest of the year) PREVENT the final option being burned in 2021??

If so, the Tribe might be playing a bit of a long game with Sam & trying to keep him available to the team a little longer...
 
Yes. Id rather see Hentges in the Columbus rotation once the AAA season begins.

No. He has not spent five years in A ball. Nor has he failed at every level.

I've listed his career steps earlier.

His first 'year' of A ball consisted of 6.1 IP in A- at age 18.

His second year consisted of 60.1 IP during which he got hurt. His numbers were hardly a failure, in fact the opposite for a hard throwing prospect. 10.89 K/9 with an xFIP of 3.50...at age 19!

His third 'year' in A ball consisted of consisted of 17.2 IP back in A- within a year of TJS. The fact that he was even on a mound was a success.

His fourth 'year' was the only true year he had in A ball...118.1 IP at age 21 with an ERA of 3.27 with peripherals to back it up.

His year in AA at age 22 was not a good one, but he still had decent FIP and xFIP.

Over all in seven 'years' in the org, including rehab innings, he has only thrown about 410 IP....202 in A ball.

It took Kluber 288 IP in A ball before he saw AA. It took him almost another 200 before he got to AAA. And Kluber started his career four urs older than Hentges and never had to go thru TJS...nor miss a season due to Covid.

Kluber didn't even see AAA until the very end of his age 24 season.

By the same standards being applied to Hentges, Kluber was a failed SP prospect at the same age.

It is highly doubtful that Hentges ever reaches Klubers level, but the same rules apply. It takes more patience with some pitching prospects than others. Cleveland has done pretty damn well, living off of others orgs impatience with pitching prospects. We shouldn't make the same mistake that we have fed off of so long.

The org should be 100% certain that there isn't an elite SP hiding in that 6-8 frame, before giving up on finding out.
 
CATS44 said:
No. He has not spent five years in A ball.
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  1. 2014
  2. 2015
  3. 2016
  4. 2017
  5. 2018
Sorry, I was including Arizona Rookie League under the title of "A Ball" but hey, that's to his benefit--right? Lesser competition, should see inflated results.

Mind explaining how 25 (the age Kluber was when he pitched with us in 2011) is four more than 24? Or if you mean when they started pitching in the minors, you're reinforcing my point... it didn't take Kluber (again, an extreme outlier case that has nothing to do with Hentges) seven years of minor league pitching.

If you want to talk about innings pitched, sure, Hentges hasn't pitched that many innings. If you say you need more innings to be sure, then go for it. I don't have a problem with that take. I just don't see a thrower like him developing into a reliable starter at this point. If he hasn't figured out how to pitch yet, I'm not betting on him finding it.

But, I think it's all garbage to begin with. Letting him pitch out of the bullpen isn't giving up on finding out. We've proven the ability to bring young pitchers from the pen into the starting rotation.
 
Hentges.

He is burning options. He also doesn't have a clear path to make the rotation in the next season or 2.

His secondary stuff hasn't vastly improved. He got torched in 2019 and returning to Akron in 2020 seemed quite possible.

His best bet to contribute to the tribe NOW is through the bullpen. To spot start, to play up that FB, to get a good look at his stuff.

His maximum value is as a starter, but is that realistic? IDK.

Keep him in the pen for now, once Columbus gets rolling shipping him down to start isn't a bad idea. If they don't it's because he is contributing to the ML team. How is that bad?

He has always been potential based not results based, and maybe the tribe realize that his real value is as a bully arm.
 
Criznit said:
Hentges.

He is burning options. He also doesn't have a clear path to make the rotation in the next season or 2.

His secondary stuff hasn't vastly improved. He got torched in 2019 and returning to Akron in 2020 seemed quite possible.

His best bet to contribute to the tribe NOW is through the bullpen. To spot start, to play up that FB, to get a good look at his stuff.

His maximum value is as a starter, but is that realistic? IDK.

Keep him in the pen for now, once Columbus gets rolling shipping him down to start isn't a bad idea. If they don't it's because he is contributing to the ML team. How is that bad?

He has always been potential based not results based, and maybe the tribe realize that his real value is as a bully arm.
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correction: "....left handed bully arm..."

...one thing is for certain.. no reason to manage his service clock..
 
Twins blow 2-run lead in bottom of 10th, committing two errors in the walk off loss. Colome takes the loss in relief. As win 11th consecutive game.
 
DCTribefan said:
Twins blow 2-run lead in bottom of 10th, committing two errors in the walk off loss. Colome takes the loss in relief. As win 11th consecutive game.
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Ya I watched the 9th where they also blew a 1 run lead.
 
Criznit said:
You have to pretty jaded to not smile/chuckle at this one. Well done.
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I didn't chuckle because I am jaded.

I didn't chuckle because I don't find such comments humorous in the least.

It may not matter here, but such comments in the broader community only reinforce prevailing ignorance and undermine reasonable attitudes about the team.

Besides, good satire is more clever than that.
 
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