2021 Spring Training Thread

[Gson]

@sportscoach

Hmm..

-Agree that Miller being up to start the year has to be a last resort.. but I also don't know what the CLEFO is thinking w/r the AAA season being pushed back..

-Amed: Trade him.. The return in trade for Amed should be looked at closely, it has to help now and into the future if a deal is made... Amed's numbers away from Citi.. are enticing... What he needs as a new member of this club is to be given every chance for a role on the club & he can do that in the meantime..even if he doesn't get traded..

Very doubtful that Plesac's going anywhere..

Thoughts?...

 

[CATS44]

My thought is that A Rosario may be the most overlooked player on this team at present.

He isn't a GG at SS, but he isn't a hack, either. He has put up plus dWAR every season he has played. He is our best offensive option at SS at the moment and should get the first opportunity to play every day. His career numbers outside of Citi are more than enticing.

I favor pitching and defense over offense, but with this team the obvious need is offense.

He is at the age...and he has the tools...when production often takes off.

Folks can check it, but when the Lindor trade talk heated up, I offered a list of trade targets I thought that the FO should look at. Rosario was right near the top of that list. The Mets butchered that kid to start with...and the NY media finished the job.

The situations aren't exactly the same, but Rosario is the Mets version of Jhonny Peralta, who seemingly couldn't do anything right here...who was described as a bad SS who should be playing another position...but who ended up being a good shortstop for a long time. He only put up 15 fWAR over the next four seasons.

 

[CDAV45]

Miller isn't going to play for the Indians until he can stay up here full time (barring injuries). Why would you want to use one of his options/start his clock when they are so high on him when it comes to his contact skills. Also got to remember, Jones likely isn't going to replace JRam at 3B so a guy like Miller could be one of the candidates for 3B long term. If Rosario cannot cut it and we want to get the control over Gimenez, we will use Chang, M. Freeman, Clement etc there instead, not Miller.

Why would we move Plesac? He is one of the guys we likely will try to extend in due time if he keeps pitching well. Plesac isn't going anywhere unless there is some type of issue with him in the clubhouse. With the fact Carrasco got traded, we aren't going to trade any of the ones the FO and coaches consider their top 5.

JRam will still take a haul to get so I doubt we trade him this season. Eddie is a rental, Hernandez is honestly as well with an affordable second season, so both are smart to trade if out of contention. Amed has three years of control and is in arbitration, so he isn't exactly a long term option right now on paper, but we will keep him if the offer isnt good/he shows he should have been a top prospect that came up to early.

If we didn't want to keep Amed/think Amed couldn't be an everyday player, we would have traded him by now. I don't see Amed getting move unless he cannot find a role on this team.

Miller can be used in the exact way Gimenez was last season, which I believe would be long enough to gain the extra year of control on Gimenez. Then Miller's time could be controlled as well if need be.

I didn't mean to insinuate that Plesac will be dealt. More that there will be intense interest in him, and that the quality of depth might allow that to happen if the offer is too good to refuse. Especially if a SP or 2 is returned in a separate deal. How Quantrill, McKenzie, Allen, and others perform will likely have some influence as well.

It will take a haul to get Ramirez, and I think that a haul will be offered. Actually, I'd bet that a haul has already been offered.

Well, I view Amed as expendable if a team like the Reds want to give up something of need and value to obtain him. He won't be given away for nothing.

 

[WhoAzcue]

Miller isn't going to play for the Indians until he can stay up here full time (barring injuries). Why would you want to use one of his options/start his clock when they are so high on him when it comes to his contact skills. Also got to remember, Jones likely isn't going to replace JRam at 3B so a guy like Miller could be one of the candidates for 3B long term. If Rosario cannot cut it and we want to get the control over Gimenez, we will use Chang, M. Freeman, Clement etc there instead, not Miller.

Why would we move Plesac? He is one of the guys we likely will try to extend in due time if he keeps pitching well. Plesac isn't going anywhere unless there is some type of issue with him in the clubhouse. With the fact Carrasco got traded, we aren't going to trade any of the ones the FO and coaches consider their top 5.

JRam will still take a haul to get so I doubt we trade him this season. Eddie is a rental, Hernandez is honestly as well with an affordable second season, so both are smart to trade if out of contention. Amed has three years of control and is in arbitration, so he isn't exactly a long term option right now on paper, but we will keep him if the offer isnt good/he shows he should have been a top prospect that came up to early.

If we didn't want to keep Amed/think Amed couldn't be an everyday player, we would have traded him by now. I don't see Amed getting move unless he cannot find a role on this team.

On the money, across the board.

 

[petes999]

Stephan needs to be a reliever this year just to stick. Doubt Indians know much else about longterm till they do their adjustments with him to see what they really have. With pitching this year, I am sure he and Plutko get extended stints in 2-3 inning relief. Key is if Allen or McK get sent to alt site to be 6th guy or to pen to piggyback. They are considered starters long term.

Also on 9 man pen, I assumed it was to break camp till they needed their 5th guy who will be off the 26 man roster till needed. I assume, after 2-3 weeks of season, most starters will be fully stretched and into a bit warmer weather to not need the pen as much like in past non-Covid years as well.

I think they do 13-13 split ... especially if they don't do a taxi squad. A lot to sort out. I doubt they made final decisions on anything past first 2-3 weeks and see who is 25/26 guys.

 

[CATS44]

I agree that the roster decisions will extend well into the season. The real problem is how to retain all the options while managing the 40 man.

We have 27 pitchers in camp, nineteen on the 40 man.

Several of them are in immediate use or lose situations.

 

[2Tall]

It was a gorgeous day yesterday! Hanging out through Friday...

 

[xmasbuck]

It was a gorgeous day yesterday! Hanging out through Friday...

looks like March, 2019

 

[CDAV45]

My thought is that A Rosario may be the most overlooked player on this team at present.

He isn't a GG at SS, but he isn't a hack, either. He has put up plus dWAR every season he has played. He is our best offensive option at SS at the moment and should get the first opportunity to play every day. His career numbers outside of Citi are more than enticing.

I favor pitching and defense over offense, but with this team the obvious need is offense.

He is at the age...and he has the tools...when production often takes off.

Folks can check it, but when the Lindor trade talk heated up, I offered a list of trade targets I thought that the FO should look at. Rosario was right near the top of that list. The Mets butchered that kid to start with...and the NY media finished the job.

The situations aren't exactly the same, but Rosario is the Mets version of Jhonny Peralta, who seemingly couldn't do anything right here...who was described as a bad SS who should be playing another position...but who ended up being a good shortstop for a long time. He only put up 15 fWAR over the next four seasons.

Uhhh Amed Rosario has put up negative dWAR every season he played with the Mets and assuming he is "our best offensive option at SS" is a bit much IMO. I get what you're saying though, and I agree that he is at the age that many start to realize their potential. I don't think there is any question that this kid has the tools to be a good player. I don't think he's as bad defensively at SS as we've been led to believe either. For me, it's more about the fact that Gimenez is simply a superior SS to Rosario. We have the GG Hernandez at 2B and Ramirez at 3B. If(emphatically stated) Rosario could play an adequate CF then I would be excited for that possibility. He's certainly a good enough athlete, but that type of transition usually doesn't happen quickly.

I don't know how they will use Amed, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him dealt. Evidently there were several teams asking about him prior to being sent to Cleveland.

 

[WhoAzcue]

After Daniel Johnson's ringing run-scoring double today, Tom Hamilton said, "No one's even thinking about this guy."

Yeah, right, Tom.

 

[Gson]

SportsTime Ohio will be showing the Civale/Houser matchup from the Brewers home tomorrow.. 3:10 first pitch..

 

[2Tall]

I little windy by the end of the game and 4 E's but still, the weather...

 

[CATS44]

Uhhh Amed Rosario has put up negative dWAR every season he played with the Mets and assuming he is "our best offensive option at SS" is a bit much IMO. I get what you're saying though, and I agree that he is at the age that many start to realize their potential. I don't think there is any question that this kid has the tools to be a good player. I don't think he's as bad defensively at SS as we've been led to believe either. For me, it's more about the fact that Gimenez is simply a superior SS to Rosario. We have the GG Hernandez at 2B and Ramirez at 3B. If(emphatically stated) Rosario could play an adequate CF then I would be excited for that possibility. He's certainly a good enough athlete, but that type of transition usually doesn't happen quickly.

I don't know how they will use Amed, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him dealt. Evidently there were several teams asking about him prior to being sent to Cleveland.

Uh...I dont know what you are looking at, but according to fangraphs, his dWAR has been...

2.8
1.3
5.9
2.7

As for offense, do you discount stats in Coors?

I do.

The stats in Citi are more skewed than they are in Coors.

Dont pay a lot for batters who put up big numbers in Coors. Pay for batters who have put up mediocre numbers in Citi.

If the FO leaves Rosario alone, plays him every day at short, he is likely to put up better numbers than Story puts up away from Coors. Hint: Rosario numbers away from Citi are far better than Story's outside of Coors.

 

[sportscoach]

Uhhh Amed Rosario has put up negative dWAR every season he played with the Mets and assuming he is "our best offensive option at SS" is a bit much IMO. I get what you're saying though, and I agree that he is at the age that many start to realize their potential. I don't think there is any question that this kid has the tools to be a good player. I don't think he's as bad defensively at SS as we've been led to believe either. For me, it's more about the fact that Gimenez is simply a superior SS to Rosario. We have the GG Hernandez at 2B and Ramirez at 3B. If(emphatically stated) Rosario could play an adequate CF then I would be excited for that possibility. He's certainly a good enough athlete, but that type of transition usually doesn't happen quickly.

I don't know how they will use Amed, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him dealt. Evidently there were several teams asking about him prior to being sent to Cleveland.

I just dont see why we havent dealt him already if he wasnt planned on being apart of this team. So it's likely he will be one of the main guys on this team as long as we are in contention and he is playing well.

@CATS44 his numbers via baseball reference for dWAR are all negative. He just isn't a great SS. That being stated, it's very possible his bat does well enough that he could easily take another position on the field as well. I really do hope we see him in another position since a guy like Gimenez is vastly superior defensively so there isn't any way Amed stays at SS the whole season.

 

[CDAV45]

Uh...I dont know what you are looking at, but according to fangraphs, his dWAR has been...

2.8
1.3
5.9
2.7

As for offense, do you discount stats in Coors?

I do.

The stats in Citi are more skewed than they are in Coors.

Dont pay a lot for batters who put up big numbers in Coors. Pay for batters who have put up mediocre numbers in Citi.

If the FO leaves Rosario alone, plays him every day at short, he is likely to put up better numbers than Story puts up away from Coors. Hint: Rosario numbers away from Citi are far better than Story's outside of Coors.

Baseball Reference dWAR for Amed Rosario:
2017 -0.4
2018 -1.0
2019 -0.3
2020 -0.1

What are you talking about discounting stats? I agree with you that he will be getting better offensively and hasn't been bad to begin with. It's your defensive numbers that are way different than mine. Everyone on earth knows that Amed Rosario's defense at SS is a bit sketchy so I'm leaning toward you looked at them wrong or FG and BR use different calculations to get their dWAR numbers.

Again, it isn't a knock against Rosario, but he is not going to supplant Gimenez at SS other than to cover for him while they gain an extra year of control. I'm not even certain that they'll do that TBH. Gimenez is a fantastic defensive SS. It's really that simple.