2022 Cleveland Guardians Regular Season Thread

[CDAV45]

There isn't too much competition for DH if Naylor is playing 1B. Someone like Jones could theoretically come through and maybe later in the season Valera could squeeze the OF situation but starting out the year at least I think the 3 OF spots and DH are going to be given to those 4 OFs and it will be theirs to lose. Kwan's spot is the most secure and Brennan's the least but any of them could theoretically lose playing time if they slump long enough.

Trades would obviously change this situation. There's also Benson probably lurking around somewhere also ready to take away some PAs if someone slumps or gets hurt.

I'm not really worried about the OF situation at all. Just add a poverty RH bat (with a history of hitting LHP) and call it a day and let the youngsters play.

The OF depth is Kwan, Straw, OGon, Brennan, Benson, Jones and Valera at some point. That's 5 of the 7 listed that are LHH. Straw's bat is useless for the most part and his value lies entirely in his defense which is arguably the best in baseball. In my utopia all of Straw, Benson and Jones are dealt and a big RHH OF/1B is acquired/signed. I'd even consider dealing Valera for the right one. At that point the OF rotation would consist of Kwan, Brennan, big RHH, OGon. There could be a rotation of RF/1B/DH for the acquired bat. We mentioned all of Vargas, Yepez and Vientos being good options. We'll just have to see what happens.

 

[petes999]

Sooner or later, there comes a time where it becomes more and more obvious that we are not all that committed to RHB. Yes, we went after Reyes and Drury but was Mahle upside over Plesac our bigger prize? We could have just sent prospects for Drury when hearing of Reds inpatients of waiting on Plesac for prospect trade to facilitate Mahle - but FO did not. Out of our top 30 prospects, we only have Noel, Arias and Lavastida as the only righty hitters (Rocchio, Martinez, Chourio and Genao are all switch). Being analytical, Guardians go after who is more viable vs the leagues predominance of righty pitchers. So, if a right handed batter comes around as Reyes and Oscar, great. But, will they sell the farm for RHB? Maybe not?

Analytically, Guardians would love to go all Lefty hitters vs righty pitcher. That leaves 4 sports for right handed bats. Even if you count Oscar as a starter, that leaves Rosario (for now), Arias, Lavastida (or other catcher), Straw, Miller or Noel (in a year) -- 5-6 choices to bat from right side. Will an upgrade help, yes. But, it is not the end of the world to our FO as pursuit of Drury and cutting of Reyes/Call showed (nice but not needed). And, in the end, I am sure they would love more hitters who have more even splits like Kwan.

 

[KluberSociety]

Sooner or later, there comes a time where it becomes more and more obvious that we are not all that committed to RHB. Yes, we went after Reyes and Drury but was Mahle upside over Plesac our bigger prize? We could have just sent prospects for Drury when hearing of Reds inpatients of waiting on Plesac for prospect trade to facilitate Mahle - but FO did not. Out of our top 30 prospects, we only have Noel, Arias and Lavastida as the only righty hitters (Rocchio, Martinez, Chourio and Genao are all switch). Being analytical, Guardians go after who is more viable vs the leagues predominance of righty pitchers. So, if a right handed batter comes around as Reyes and Oscar, great. But, will they sell the farm for RHB? Maybe not?

Analytically, Guardians would love to go all Lefty hitters vs righty pitcher. That leaves 4 sports for right handed bats. Even if you count Oscar as a starter, that leaves Rosario (for now), Arias, Lavastida (or other catcher), Straw, Miller or Noel (in a year) -- 5-6 choices to bat from right side. Will an upgrade help, yes. But, it is not the end of the world to our FO as pursuit of Drury and cutting of Reyes/Call showed (nice but not needed). And, in the end, I am sure they would love more hitters who have more even splits like Kwan.

One thing that I think is important to talk about in this whole discussion is that a guy like Drury is going to be playing every day and for every day players, it's a matter of balanced run production against LHP and RHP more than filling holes. To add Drury to the lineup would not only be filling one hole but also uprooting something else and filling that in. Basically, Drury was more than we needed and thus not really worth matching "top dollar" for him. This is also why I don't think we should need to worry about getting an every day RH bat in the offseason, just someone who can take Naylor out of the lineup on those lefty days.

Cutting Reyes AND Call was more of the puzzling thing when either of them could've moved into that role but I guess we wanted to give Miller a shot at it. Regardless of his struggles this year, would you rather have Reyes, Miller, or Arias face lefties now? I'm going with Franmil here. He hasn't hit lefties this year but in his career he has and I think we'd at least have to assume that he'd be an improvement over what we're putting out there now.

By puzzling I'm not saying it wasn't justifiable.

 

[PocketMonger]

Thinking about Amed situation and here's what I would do to unclog the infield logjam.

1. Trade away Owen Miller. Maybe package him in a possible Plesac deal.

2. Make Josh Naylor the full time DH versus righties while putting him on the bench versus lefties. Naylor's 856OPS against right handers justifies a full time DH spot versus right handers.

3. Make Arias the everyday starting 1B.

4. Move Amed back to 2B with Gimenez as the everyday SS.

5. List Naylor as a fifth outfielder with Freeman getting the utility infield job.

This open up a possible platoon for Amed and Freeman and if Amed struggles like usual in April/May Freeman might just take and run with the job all together.

These moves open up a ton of playing time for Arias and Freeman without a major talent loss in Amed. The DH spot will still be wide open versus lefties as well which is another nice benefit.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Thinking about Amed situation and here's what I would do to unclog the infield logjam.

1. Trade away Owen Miller. Maybe package him in a possible Plesac deal.

2. Make Josh Naylor the full time DH versus righties while putting him on the bench versus lefties. Naylor's 856OPS against right handers justifies a full time DH spot versus right handers.

3. Make Arias the everyday starting 1B.

4. Move Amed back to 2B with Gimenez as the everyday SS.

5. List Naylor as a fifth outfielder with Freeman getting the utility infield job.

This open up a possible platoon for Amed and Freeman and if Amed struggles like usual in April/May Freeman might just take and run with the job all together.

These moves open up a ton of playing time for Arias and Freeman without a major talent loss in Amed. The DH spot will still be wide open versus lefties as well which is another nice benefit.

I don't think a right-handed shortstop is the long-term solution at 1B.

I don't think there's any reason to move Amed to second. I also don't think that moving Andres around is our preferred option--he's a gold glove second baseman. Even though he came up as a SS, let him stay there and keep getting better instead of shuffling him around.

Let's say Rocchio wins the SS job out of spring training. I think that puts you here:

• C: Bo Naylor
• 1B: Josh Naylor
• 2B: Andres
• SS: Rocchio
• 3B: Jose
• LF: Kwan
• CF: ?
• RF: ?
• DH: OGon

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see Straw in CF and someone like Nolan Jones in RF.

I'd make Arias the everyday utility guy. He probably plays against lefties while Josh sits, and then rotates through the rest of the infield spelling guys.

I also think Amed might get a shot in the OF.

I also think those open spots are prime opportunities to be filled via a trade that consolidates some of our glut of prospects at the upper levels.

 

[CDAV45]

Sooner or later, there comes a time where it becomes more and more obvious that we are not all that committed to RHB. Yes, we went after Reyes and Drury but was Mahle upside over Plesac our bigger prize? We could have just sent prospects for Drury when hearing of Reds inpatients of waiting on Plesac for prospect trade to facilitate Mahle - but FO did not. Out of our top 30 prospects, we only have Noel, Arias and Lavastida as the only righty hitters (Rocchio, Martinez, Chourio and Genao are all switch). Being analytical, Guardians go after who is more viable vs the leagues predominance of righty pitchers. So, if a right handed batter comes around as Reyes and Oscar, great. But, will they sell the farm for RHB? Maybe not?

Analytically, Guardians would love to go all Lefty hitters vs righty pitcher. That leaves 4 sports for right handed bats. Even if you count Oscar as a starter, that leaves Rosario (for now), Arias, Lavastida (or other catcher), Straw, Miller or Noel (in a year) -- 5-6 choices to bat from right side. Will an upgrade help, yes. But, it is not the end of the world to our FO as pursuit of Drury and cutting of Reyes/Call showed (nice but not needed). And, in the end, I am sure they would love more hitters who have more even splits like Kwan.

I'm not so sure this is an accurate statement. It could be, but I think it has more to do with acquiring the right fit. They probably desire some balance, but finding the right player(s) isn't an easy task or it is very costly. There will be a benefit to cost analysis by this FO for every possible acquisition. On that we can agree.

Would they love to go all lefty hitters vs righty pitcher, or would they prefer a balanced lineup that makes it difficult to match up. Especially with the 3 batter minimum instilled this season. I'll go as far to say that I don't think they'll be looking for platoon bats like Luplow or Guyer types anymore. It will be a big RH hitter or they'll go with what they've got. Honestly, I'm fine with either right now.

 

[KluberSociety]

A right-handed shortstop might not be a long-term solution at 1B, but a right-handed shortstop could be a temporary solution at 1B. And I'm not necessarily talking about Arias, this could be Amed as well. Doesn't seem like Arias is all the way there as a 1B anyway so we could always slot Arias back in at SS and throw Amed at 1B which would allow us to take Naylor out on the lefty days. This way we'd get a better feel for what Arias has got at his strongest position and not stall his development there. Amed's solid fielding glove would at least play well there where range isn't as important. Keep in mind that Miller, despite all his ugliness, actually graded as an above average MLB 1B mainly because he wasn't the typical bulky lunk who was only there because he couldn't play anywhere else.

I also don't know how anyone can see Arias as a solution for specifically hitting lefties. If there's one thing he's shown so far, it's that he is significantly WORSE against lefties. Just like we can't do it for Miller, we can't just go throw someone with no track record of success against opposite handed pitching into a platoon role simply because they face the correct side in theory. I think over time I'd expect the platoon stats to close or even reverse but if we're talking about where Arias is now he's just not a guy who has shown he can hit lefties and shouldn't be counted on as such either. If we want to hit lefties NOW we need to add from the outside. Lefty mashers are simply absent from the highest levels of this organization.

 

[CDAV45]

A right-handed shortstop might not be a long-term solution at 1B, but a right-handed shortstop could be a temporary solution at 1B. And I'm not necessarily talking about Arias, this could be Amed as well. Doesn't seem like Arias is all the way there as a 1B anyway so we could always slot Arias back in at SS and throw Amed at 1B which would allow us to take Naylor out on the lefty days. This way we'd get a better feel for what Arias has got at his strongest position and not stall his development there. Amed's solid fielding glove would at least play well there where range isn't as important. Keep in mind that Miller, despite all his ugliness, actually graded as an above average MLB 1B mainly because he wasn't the typical bulky lunk who was only there because he couldn't play anywhere else.

I also don't know how anyone can see Arias as a solution for specifically hitting lefties. If there's one thing he's shown so far, it's that he is significantly WORSE against lefties. Just like we can't do it for Miller, we can't just go throw someone with no track record of success against opposite handed pitching into a platoon role simply because they face the correct side in theory. I think over time I'd expect the platoon stats to close or even reverse but if we're talking about where Arias is now he's just not a guy who has shown he can hit lefties and shouldn't be counted on as such either. If we want to hit lefties NOW we need to add from the outside. Lefty mashers are simply absent from the highest levels of this organization.

Or include Straw as being a benefit against LHP.

I hope they don't consider giving Amed reps at 1B. If that's the case the positional alignment has no meaning.

 

[KluberSociety]

Or include Straw as being a benefit against LHP.

I hope they don't consider giving Amed reps at 1B. If that's the case the positional alignment has no meaning.

Not sure what you mean about positional alignment.

But yeah, Straw's another guy who actually has hit righties better. We can talk about platooning him with Brennan or whoever but he just doesn't make for a good platoon mate although I like him as an every day guy which I think is going to have to be an agree-to-disagree thing.

 

[Alabuckeye]

Who cares about next year! Some one tell me we are winning tonight!

 

[Kiddo]

Rosario, Miller & Plesac traded.

Kwan LF
Brennan CF
Jones RF
Naylor 1B
Gimenez 2B
Arias SS
Jose 3B
Naylor C
Oscar DH

Straw - 4th OF
Freeman - Utility

Valera & Rochio knocking on the door

 

[CDAV45]

Not sure what you mean about positional alignment.

But yeah, Straw's another guy who actually has hit righties better. We can talk about platooning him with Brennan or whoever but he just doesn't make for a good platoon mate although I like him as an every day guy which I think is going to have to be an agree-to-disagree thing.

It means that if Amed is a 1B then JRam is a C, J Naylor is a CFer and so on. Amed is not a 1B nor should he be nor will he be. The idea is preposterous to me.

Yep, we'll have to agree to disagree when it comes to Straw because he shouldn't be the starting CFer on a championship team that needs to string hits together to score runs. He's f'n terrible offensively while being the best damn defensive CFer in the game. The question is what degree of less defense and/or more offense justifies replacing him?

 

[CDAV45]

Rosario, Miller & Plesac traded.

Kwan LF
Brennan CF
Jones RF
Naylor 1B
Gimenez 2B
Arias SS
Jose 3B
Naylor C
Oscar DH

Straw - 4th OF
Freeman - Utility

Valera & Rochio knocking on the door

This is actually pretty damn good to me Kiddo.

 

[CDAV45]

Who cares about next year! Some one tell me we are winning tonight!

Yeah we're going to win tonight. Why would you ask such a silly question? If you don't want to talk about the Guardians outside of the game tonight then you might be more interested in the actual game thread. Just saying.

 

[KluberSociety]

It means that if Amed is a 1B then JRam is a C, J Naylor is a CFer and so on. Amed is not a 1B nor should he be nor will he be. The idea is preposterous to me.

Yep, we'll have to agree to disagree when it comes to Straw because he shouldn't be the starting CFer on a championship team that needs to string hits together to score runs. He's f'n terrible offensively while being the best damn defensive CFer in the game. The question is what degree of less defense and/or more offense justifies replacing him?

Not a good comparison at all. Amed has the requisite skills to being a good defensive 1B. Mainly, he can field grounders well. But since the bar is kind of low and more of a lower leverage position (which IMO is vastly overstated by most), it's hard to be a good first baseman on defense alone. But Amed could be a very fine overall 1B against righties with his 120 wRC+ and speed.

J Naylor can't ever be a CF because he's slow and not great at fielding fly balls. JRam never was a catcher so it makes no sense to convert him into one now when it takes years of learning, and besides his arm is kind of weak.