2022 Season Series #29 | Tigers @ Guardians | July 14-17, 2022 (End of first half)

[Ob1]

View attachment 10913

In my normal seats lol

I am in this photo in section 152 lol

 

[xmasbuck]

Sandlin has retired 12 straight since he was recalled and made it look ridiculously easy

? - got his butt kicked by the tigers in his first appearance after getting recalled

 

[xmasbuck]

I am in this photo in section 152 lol

i thought that was you

 

[CDAV45]

If Oscar Gonzalez turns out to be the average of what he's posted so far, I'm all on board with him being an everyday corner OF for us.

However, I have concerns. If the same deficiencies in his swing that we knew about in the minors get exploited at the pro level, he could flame out quickly. In his last 8 games before getting hurt, he was 3 for 28 and struggling at the plate.

If the OGon story is "He came up, was hot, pitchers got a book on him, and he failed to adjust" then I'm happy to churn through him. If, however, he can adjust and be that plus-bat in the OF for us, that would be incredible.

His low launch angle isn't a "This guy might suck" factor for me. It's a "Hey, are we sure we've optimized this guy's talent?" question.

This^

This is the youngest team in MLB. Everything should be earned and no permanent blessing given. If you get promoted and you produce then the job is yours until you fail to do so or another player outperforms you.

I don't know if Oscar's 2021 season can be duplicated at the ML level, but they should find out. Guess who is well on his way to having the same type of exceptional season this year. Yeah, that's right. It would be Mr. Benson. The difference being Benson carries an excellent OBP.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

This^

This is the youngest team in MLB. Everything should be earned and no permanent blessing given. If you get promoted and you produce then the job is yours until you fail to do so or another player outperforms you.

I don't know if Oscar's 2021 season can be duplicated at the ML level, but they should find out. Guess who is well on his way to having the same type of exceptional season this year. Yeah, that's right. It would be Mr. Benson. The difference being Benson carries an excellent OBP.

If you said I had to cut one and keep one right now, I know it's crazy because we've seen Oscar Gonzalez produce at the MLB level, even if it was for a short time... but I'd keep Benson over OGon.

I know Benson got written off by many in those early years after being drafted, but the time he's taken to develop was put to good use. The way he completely broke down and rebuilt his swing isn't something many top prospects are willing or able to do. Something like that takes time. Now that those dividends are paying off, I'm excited to see what he can do at the major league level.

 

[sportscoach]

If you said I had to cut one and keep one right now, I know it's crazy because we've seen Oscar Gonzalez produce at the MLB level, even if it was for a short time... but I'd keep Benson over OGon.

I know Benson got written off by many in those early years after being drafted, but the time he's taken to develop was put to good use. The way he completely broke down and rebuilt his swing isn't something many top prospects are willing or able to do. Something like that takes time. Now that those dividends are paying off, I'm excited to see what he can do at the major league level.

I think it's too soon for Benson, but that's because I want his bat to be 100% muscle memory before I call him up... my question is can moving guys like Arias, Palacios, Tena etc net us an All-star plus a lefty setup/closer type?

If we can get a 4 for one, plus do a 2-3 for one, we can get Benson protected while keeping OGonz. I'd rather keep both guys and move some other guys.

 

[CDAV45]

If you said I had to cut one and keep one right now, I know it's crazy because we've seen Oscar Gonzalez produce at the MLB level, even if it was for a short time... but I'd keep Benson over OGon.

I know Benson got written off by many in those early years after being drafted, but the time he's taken to develop was put to good use. The way he completely broke down and rebuilt his swing isn't something many top prospects are willing or able to do. Something like that takes time. Now that those dividends are paying off, I'm excited to see what he can do at the major league level.

Thing is, when they drafted Benson it was known to God and everyone that he was a raw talent. Key word being talent.

 

[CDAV45]

I think it's too soon for Benson, but that's because I want his bat to be 100% muscle memory before I call him up... my question is can moving guys like Arias, Palacios, Tena etc net us an All-star plus a lefty setup/closer type?

If we can get a 4 for one, plus do a 2-3 for one, we can get Benson protected while keeping OGonz. I'd rather keep both guys and move some other guys.

Pure speculation. Wouldn't be any different if I suggested Benson is ready. We just don't know until we have some real evidence. His OBP suggest he's ready. His power suggests he'd could be a big spark for this lineup. He already plays good defense and has a howitzer for an arm. He can play all 3 OF positions.

Again, you're not seeing the forest for the trees. This season isn't about "going for it" as that will be next season or 2024. It's about finding out what the prospects can give and they're not going to abandon that plan. If/when they trade prospects it wouldn't surprise me if it was for more prospects that don't have to be rostered.

I suspect that this could be the most active deadline for Cleveland fans for quite some time. Watch, now that I said that they won't make a single move. lol

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

The G-Men go for the sweep today behind Shane Bieber, who is coming off his best outing of the season, a complete game, 95-pitch gem against the White Sox. If Bieber pitches to the same level against the much more offensively challenged Tigers we could see a Maddux.

However, 11 days ago Bieber had his worst start of the season where he allowed the Tigers five runs in 5.1 innings. Hopefully we'll see the Bieber from five days ago and not the one from eleven.

The Tigers announced they will go with a bullpen day. Their starter is lefty Tyler Alexander, who has started four times in 13 appearances. Alexander, 28, has a career mark of 7-14, 4.17. This year he's 2-3, 4.45.

Alexander had an ERA of 8.76 on April 29 when he sprained his elbow and was out for 6-7 weeks. He may have been pitching hurt. Since coming back he has made 9 appearances, pitched 18 innings, and allowed just 3 earned runs (1.50 ERA). His longest outing was 40 pitches and 3.1 innings. He's pitched twice against the Guardians, allowing 1 run in 4.1 innings.

The G's can't hit lefties and Alexander has been very effective the last month, so I won't be surprised if he shuts out the G's for 3-4 innings, or even five. The Tigers have a great bullpen when they're using their top people so I can see this game as being close and low scoring.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I think it's too soon for Benson, but that's because I want his bat to be 100% muscle memory before I call him up... my question is can moving guys like Arias, Palacios, Tena etc net us an All-star plus a lefty setup/closer type?

If we can get a 4 for one, plus do a 2-3 for one, we can get Benson protected while keeping OGonz. I'd rather keep both guys and move some other guys.

I don't think Palacios has any value.

I don't think Arias and Tena are enough for an all-star. Anyone selling a premium asset is going to look at our prospect list and ask for Espino or Williams. We aren't going to put them on the table and the conversation likely dies there.

 

[sportscoach]

I don't think Palacios has any value.

I don't think Arias and Tena are enough for an all-star. Anyone selling a premium asset is going to look at our prospect list and ask for Espino or Williams. We aren't going to put them on the table and the conversation likely dies there.

Palacios actually has value otherwise he wouldn't have been at the big league club. The problem is, he is overshadowed by Kwan's elite bay control, Brennan/Benson's upside and the fact he is learning a brand new position.

Arias is still a top 100 prospect by all outlets and most teams are high on the kid. He could net us an all-star if we packaged around him, but the question is could he net us the all-star that fits within the FOs parameters... the years of control type...

Also I was thinking the 4 for 1 type of deal for an All-star, so Arias, plus Palacios/Tena and two of our minor league pitchers (not named Williams, Espino or Allen). We have a deep farm so their values are pretty high...

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Palacios actually has value otherwise he wouldn't have been at the big league club. The problem is, he is overshadowed by Kwan's elite bay control, Brennan/Benson's upside and the fact he is learning a brand new position.

Arias is still a top 100 prospect by all outlets and most teams are high on the kid. He could net us an all-star if we packaged around him, but the question is could he net us the all-star that fits within the FOs parameters... the years of control type...

Oscar Mercado actually has value, otherwise he wouldn't have been at the big league club. Yu Chang, Bradley Zimmer, Ernie Clement, the list goes on.

And yes, I'm well aware that their situations aren't all the same--but simply saying that someone has value because they're on the big league club is poor reasoning.

If someone's willing to trade a young all-star talent to you and not get your top prospects back in return, you take it and run. I just don't think your hypothetical exists.

 

[sportscoach]

Pure speculation. Wouldn't be any different if I suggested Benson is ready. We just don't know until we have some real evidence. His OBP suggest he's ready. His power suggests he'd could be a big spark for this lineup. He already plays good defense and has a howitzer for an arm. He can play all 3 OF positions.

Again, you're not seeing the forest for the trees. This season isn't about "going for it" as that will be next season or 2024. It's about finding out what the prospects can give and they're not going to abandon that plan. If/when they trade prospects it wouldn't surprise me if it was for more prospects that don't have to be rostered.

I suspect that this could be the most active deadline for Cleveland fans for quite some time. Watch, now that I said that they won't make a single move. lol

It's not pure speculation, it's logic... Benson is finally starting to get a swing and whatnot that's legit, but he hasn't been doing it long... put him to MLB, is he going to keep the swing that isn't muscle memory yet? I'd rather side with, let's get him 600 ABs with that swing before he see any MLB time in a sense.

His batting eye and defense have been ready from day one... his numbers this year are leaps and bounds different than past years... I don't want to touch anything and just keep him doing what he is right now. He is far from being polished and I think he will polish way better keeping him at AAA for 22...

 

[sportscoach]

Oscar Mercado actually has value, otherwise he wouldn't have been at the big league club. Yu Chang, Bradley Zimmer, Ernie Clement, the list goes on.

And yes, I'm well aware that their situations aren't all the same--but simply saying that someone has value because they're on the big league club is poor reasoning.

If someone's willing to trade a young all-star talent to you and not get your top prospects back in return, you take it and run. I just don't think your hypothetical exists.

You know Palacios was in our top 15 prospects before the season started? He isnt a slouch of a prospect at all, if anything most places had him worth more than Bo Naylor in deals at the beginning of the season. He has a plus contact rate and a very good batters eyes... Most teams would take him as a leadoff guy because he has a knack for getting on base... Look at his numbers... His only question marks are his shoulder after he had surgery on it and what position he plays. He never got the chance to learn to play the OF. Most scouts had him being a LF/CF type defensively. He only likes to lead the minors in OBP% with a solid SLG%... over .900 OPS since being sent down... His batting style and numbers say, Michael Brantley type at the end of the day...

Aka I personally feel like, you haven't look at Palacios' actual numbers and only saw him with the non-everyday ABs in Cleveland... Everyone likes the kids as a person and hitter. Francona had him up because of that bat...

Well for this arguments sake, I hope I am right with this comment, you are undervaluing some of the prospects Cleveland has...

 

[CDAV45]

I don't think Palacios has any value.

I don't think Arias and Tena are enough for an all-star. Anyone selling a premium asset is going to look at our prospect list and ask for Espino or Williams. We aren't going to put them on the table and the conversation likely dies there.

Just like it did when discussing Reynolds with Pittsburgh. For that I'm grateful.