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2023-24 Season | Game #70 | Cavs @ Timberwolves | March 22, 2024 | 8:00 p.m.

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Just a rough year. Started weak. Had a December, January surge then injuries piled up and the team struggled down the stretch. A JB theme. I remember 35-21. Then 8-20. From 2 years ago.
 
Btw just trying to create levity. No harm no foul
 
Honest question: How did Allen's offensive game look when Mitchell was in there and Garland was out?

I'm also disappointed to see this coaching staff not use a true advantage they have with their bigs as passers..
The last time we played the Wolves with Garland as the sole guard, Allen scored 33 points. It was a couple weeks ago.
 
He does in January so no he will not be... Most likely his current season production because I obviously think he will return to his form next season, which is an All Star type caliber player...

I really don’t want to just trash Garland but your arguments for him are so bad that you’re driving me in that direction. The best he has ever been is a borderline all star with an uncertain impact on winning. We gave him the max off his potential, because we saw him improving and getting even better. If he returned to last year’s form that would certainly be an improvement on this year but he’s actually got to be even better than that to justify his contract and his role on this team.
 
There's a middle ground to be reached here and it's not quite the black and white that fans seem to live in..

I appreciate Garland getting his shot back, and I'm glad he has..

Looking at the box score, Garland has certainly posted some solid lines of late..

But watching the game, there's not the feel of control, and consistency that I would want and hope Garland brings... When Garland was out and Mitchell was leading the team, there was a sense of confidence and crispness the team was playing with... The offense was humming, and the lulls of offensive unknown just weren't there..

With Garland, there's just too many offensive lulls throughout the game... There's times where it's painfully obvious they need an organizer and someone who can put the team on his back for stretches to get them through, and while it's screamed for Garland to step up he just really hasn't on a consistent basis... Which is hard to watch because we've see him be that guy before, and it hasn't clicked this season for whatever reason.. LeVert has seemingly been that guy more at times of late than Garland has...

So yeah, there's been progress with Garland but with what he's being paid and with what the Cavs need right now, it's been a bit disappointing to not see him take that step forward like everyone wants and has hoped for...

It doesn't mean Garland needs to be moved for Keldon Johnson this offseason but it does mean the Cavs need to find a way to get more out of Garland, and Garland also needs to do some self-reflection and maturation in order for this team to take the next step..
I would move Garland for Keldon Johnson.

He doesn’t fit with Mitchell, and he not a clutch or winning player.
 
I really don’t want to just trash Garland but your arguments for him are so bad that you’re driving me in that direction. The best he has ever been is a borderline all star with an uncertain impact on winning. We gave him the max off his potential, because we saw him improving and getting even better. If he returned to last year’s form that would certainly be an improvement on this year but he’s actually got to be even better than that to justify his contract and his role on this team.
That is fine but who has Cleveland ever attracted to in Free Agency with a max contract? When he signed his extension 95% of all fans were estastic. I believe he will return to his form and certainly he still can improve even more. As a number 2 player on a team he is worth that contract, that is my opinion. Are there other options Koby may explore this summer with moving him, sure but I doubt that happens...I would be shocked if the core 4 are broken up this summer.
 
The Cavs are a 86th percentile team in net points per 100 possessions this year, and 94th percentile last year when Mitchell and Garland share the floor together...

The statement is a bit inflated... The fit is more than fine, and has been more than successful when together..

I'm not concerned with these two as much as I am with other contributing factors, or simply Garland himself..

Like you said, the bolded is the problem. It seems pretty clear at this point that the reason the pairing works is more so because of Mitchell, and you see it when they play without each other.

Net Ratings

Mitchell/Garland = 6.0

Garland Off:
Mitchell/LeVert = 8.6
Mitchell/Okoro = 7.1
Mitchell/Strus = 10.2
Mitchell/Merrill = 13.1

Mitchell Off:
Garland/LeVert = 4.7
Garland/Okoro = 0.4
Garland/Strus = 5.6
Garland/Merrill = -5.0

The question would be what profile of a G would maximize Mitchell?

I think an Austin Reaves-type guard is the perfect type of guard to play with Mitchell. Kind of like a blend of Levert and Merrill. Maybe the Klutch connection can make it happen with some other pieces.
 
I really don’t want to just trash Garland but your arguments for him are so bad that you’re driving me in that direction. The best he has ever been is a borderline all star with an uncertain impact on winning. We gave him the max off his potential, because we saw him improving and getting even better. If he returned to last year’s form that would certainly be an improvement on this year but he’s actually got to be even better than that to justify his contract and his role on this team.
Return last year's team and he'll return to last year's form. I don't know, but to me, it seems pretty obvious that Niang shouldn't be starting on an NBA team. It's the difference between losing Mobley and losing Mobley and Wade. LeVert and Okoro both starting is the difference between losing one of Mitchell or Garland, but then also losing Strus.

The players we currently have available don't constitute a good team. Everyone saw what happened when Garland rested at the end of third tonight. It was a clown show.
 
Like you said, the bolded is the problem. It seems pretty clear at this point that the reason the pairing works is more so because of Mitchell, and you see it when they play without each other.

Net Ratings

Mitchell/Garland = 6.0

Garland Off:
Mitchell/LeVert = 8.6
Mitchell/Okoro = 7.1
Mitchell/Strus = 10.2
Mitchell/Merrill = 13.1

Mitchell Off:
Garland/LeVert = 4.7
Garland/Okoro = 0.4
Garland/Strus = 5.6
Garland/Merrill = -5.0

The question would be what profile of a G would maximize Mitchell?

I think an Austin Reaves-type guard is the perfect type of guard to play with Mitchell. Kind of like a blend of Levert and Merrill. Maybe the Klutch connection can make it happen with some other pieces.
Now do it for last year..
 
That's straight absurdity, and would even get rejected on 2k...

So here I am again pounding on the Devin Vassel train. LOL. We should start pushing for it as soon as the season ends before Atlanta swoops in offering Trae Young.
 
Now do it for last year..

22-23

Mitchell/Garland = 8.0

Garland Off:
Mitchell/LeVert = 5.9
Mitchell/Okoro = 4.4

Mitchell Off:
Garland/LeVert = 7.9
Garland/Okoro = 8.2


23-24

Mitchell/Garland = 6.0

Garland Off:
Mitchell/LeVert = 8.6
Mitchell/Okoro = 7.1
Mitchell/Strus = 10.2
Mitchell/Merrill = 13.1

Mitchell Off:
Garland/LeVert = 4.7
Garland/Okoro = 0.4
Garland/Strus = 5.6
Garland/Merrill = -5.0

Garland was slightly better in those guard pairings in 2022-23 compared to Mitchell, and significantly worse in 23-24.
 
So here I am again pounding on the Devin Vassel train. LOL. We should start pushing for it as soon as the season ends before Atlanta swoops in offering Trae Young.
Atlanta can be my guest..

Vassell has a career mark of 9.1 win shares; Garland almost doubles that of 16.3... Vassell is at 3.1 WS in 63 games this year, while Garland is at 2.5 WS in 45 games...

Trading talent for lesser parts is how small market teams flounder..
 

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