2023-24 Season | Game #70 | Cavs @ Timberwolves | March 22, 2024 | 8:00 p.m.

[Smooth]

22-23

Mitchell/Garland = 8.0

Garland Off:
Mitchell/LeVert = 5.9
Mitchell/Okoro = 4.4

Mitchell Off:
Garland/LeVert = 7.9
Garland/Okoro = 8.2


23-24

Mitchell/Garland = 6.0

Garland Off:
Mitchell/LeVert = 8.6
Mitchell/Okoro = 7.1
Mitchell/Strus = 10.2
Mitchell/Merrill = 13.1

Mitchell Off:
Garland/LeVert = 4.7
Garland/Okoro = 0.4
Garland/Strus = 5.6
Garland/Merrill = -5.0

Garland was slightly better in those guard pairings in 2022-23 compared to Mitchell, and significantly worse in 23-24.

Which my point is the blueprint is there for the pairing to succeed, as well as Garland to succeed without Mitchell on the court.. And that's all with the ups and downs of this year, and the criticism of this coaching staff..

You change out the coach, and accessory players as needed before you change out the core talent..

If Brooklyn comes along and offers Mikal Bridges then sure you have that discussion.. But if we're talking about Keldon Johnson and Devin Vassell, there's nothing pointing to that making this situation better, or past data saying it's worth forgoing what a new coaching staff can do for this team...

 

[Pierre Pan]

While certainly everybody has a right to post whenever and wherever they choose, I feel compelled to point out that it’s a lot easier to come into a Game Day thread and solely post after the game is finished and amazingly have this omniscience to their posts. Of course, there are takes during the course of real time action that might not look great after the game, yet are valid opinions during the heat of the battle.

Without being accusatory, time and time again, I read comments postgame from people that haven’t even watched the entire game ( and often times admit such) or are just reading a box score….. or perhaps only want to post postgame so that their analysis seems more insightful. Just saying.

There are sports reporters that constantly do the same thing, telling you what they knew ahead of time, yet strangely only post a story/tweet after the fact and never scoop anyone.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

Which my point is the blueprint is there for the pairing to succeed, as well as Garland to succeed without Mitchell on the court.. And that's all with the ups and downs of this year, and the criticism of this coaching staff..

You change out the coach, and accessory players as needed before you change out the core talent..

If Brooklyn comes along and offers Mikal Bridges then sure you have that discussion.. But if we're talking about Keldon Johnson and Devin Vassell, there's nothing pointing to that making this situation better, or past data saying it's worth forgoing what a new coaching staff can do for this team...

Never said anything about Devin Vassell and Keldon Johnson

 

[CavsKermit]

I, for one, am critical of DG because he is supposed to be our 2nd best player. One that is able to carry the load and take over the game. Like with Kyrie during the golden days.

The worry is that if this is the preview of the team without Donovan, then I would rather ship DG for a better fitting piece to convince DM to sign that extension.

Before LBJ came back, what was the Cavs record with Kyrie as the lead dog.

 

[CavsKermit]

I would move Garland for Keldon Johnson.

He doesn’t fit with Mitchell, and he not a clutch or winning player.

And you would never work in the NBA again. Keldon Johnson isn't even a good player. He's a one-trick pony who can't defend anyone.

 

[CavsKermit]

So I'm gonna list all the players on this list who have signed for max extensions.

Edwards, Haliburton, Maxey, Morant, Bane.

Now, who here is Garland better than?

People are being clever with the age thing here. As if the investment in Garland as franchise cornerstone isn't part of this.

Idc if he's better than Cam Thomas, whom the Nets are never gonna turn into a guy expected to help lead them to glory.

I'd take him over Maxey, Bane, and Morant without question.

And really if people are being consistent with their injuries don't matter, only the team's record with that player leading the charge position, so should they. The Sixers have sucked since Embiid went down and the Grizzlies have one of the worst records in the NBA with Bane at the helm.

 

[The Oi]

yes - you can look it up also. For players under the age of 25 he is still considered top 15.

Under the age of 25 with the initials DG he’s #1.

 

[bushwick_bill]

Before LBJ came back, what was the Cavs record with Kyrie as the lead dog.

They were not very good at 33 and 49.

 

[Smooth]

Never said anything about Devin Vassell and Keldon Johnson

Understood, just was a general comment not pointed at any one person..

You’re always open to the right conversations and if Cavs could get back Lauri, Bridges, Wagner, then sure you have those conversations.. But I highly doubt any of those conversations are on the table right now..

So otherwise, selling off a young, talented PG for lesser parts after a down year, and after data pointing to previous success, is just not the way to go.. It’s a short sighted move and there are other things that should happen from the FO’s spot, coaches spot and from the players maturation before making an extreme move like that..

 

[bushwick_bill]

I'd take him over Maxey, Bane, and Morant without question.

And really if people are being consistent with their injuries don't matter, only the team's record with that player leading the charge position, so should they. The Sixers have sucked since Embiid went down and the Grizzlies have one of the worst records in the NBA with Bane at the helm.

I believe the 76ers are 9 and 15 since Embiid went down, led by Maxey and others.

Maxey, Tobias Harris, Kelly Oubre Jr., Buddy Hield, Cameron Payne, Kyle Lowry and Paul Reed make up a solid core when Embiid is out…

 

[Rich]

They were not very good at 33 and 49.

Comparing Kyrie in year 2 to Garland in year 5.

Priceless.

Go ahead and compare Garland in year 2 to Kyrie in year 2.

See how that one works out lol.

 

[bushwick_bill]

Comparing Kyrie in year 2 to Garland in year 5.

Priceless.

Go ahead and compare Garland in year 2 to Kyrie in year 2.

See how that one works out lol.

It was actually his third year, Kyrie had a 33 and 49 record. Cleveland and DG were 44 and 38, were they not?
Want to look at stats as well? I am in no why saying DG is the better player but DG was winning in his third year and an All Star. Lol

You are a smart guy you can look up each players stats and compare for yourself.

Each player signed their max the summer after their third season. So Koby should not have offered DG a max that summer?

 

[buzzdog]

[IMG alt="bushwick_bill"]https://cdn.realcavsfans.com/data/avatars/m/2/2316.jpg?1455506575[/IMG]

bushwick_bill​

• Yesterday at 10:58 PM
• #424

How did he break his jaw? How would you describe that play? Something that just happened? Just an accident?

Garland broke his jaw on what looked like a run-of-the-mill play. While driving to the basket, Garland banged the right side of his face into Celtics center Kristin Porzingis and suffered a fracture that required surgery. Garland's jaw was wired shut for a month, restricting him to a liquid diet

You seem to completely miss my point. My point is that Garland sometimes plays with a lack of awareness or focus. He broke his own jaw, by running his face full speed into the hip of Porzingas, who was pretty much standing there defending exactly the way you would expect a 7 footer to defend. It was totally a self inflicted injury. When it happened I replayed it over and over again trying to figure out what he could have possibly been thinking when he did that. Yes he has been hit in the eyes and face a number of times where it wasn't his fault. But this serious injury that he sustained was totally due to his own rather inexplicable decision. The young man has mental lapses, lapses of focus and awareness. You see it in some of his turnovers and just in choices he makes at times. I did lots of bone-headed stuff when I was in my twenties so I guess I'll chalk it up to youth and lack of experience or awareness.

I like Garland and I love it when he plays up to his potential, with his skills and ability. But honestly he just pisses me off sometimes with his lack of focus or awareness or whatever it is going on inside his head that causes him to do some of the bone-headed things that he does. He needs to mature, grow, gain whatever mindfulness it requires to function in the high stress and fast moving NBA game. Sometimes he's there, but definitely not all the time, and not when we're relying on him to be that guy.

 

[Cassity14]

Atlanta can be my guest..

Vassell has a career mark of 9.1 win shares; Garland almost doubles that of 16.3... Vassell is at 3.1 WS in 63 games this year, while Garland is at 2.5 WS in 45 games...

Trading talent for lesser parts is how small market teams flounder..

That stat, for this season, probably favors Vassell for this season, even with the disparity in games played.

I had to look it up, but win shares are directly tied to the number of wins a team has in a season. The Spurs, with all of 15 wins this season, only have 45 total 'win shares' to distribute among their players.

Conversely, because the Cavs are 25-18 when Garland plays, he is able to draw from 75 total win shares.

Link to definition

I'm not sure I'd make that trade either. The Spurs would have to sweeten the pot a fair bit.

 

[Cassity14]

I'd take him over Maxey, Bane, and Morant without question.

And really if people are being consistent with their injuries don't matter, only the team's record with that player leading the charge position, so should they. The Sixers have sucked since Embiid went down.

The Cavs are 7-9 in games Garland plays that Mitchell doesn't. That's a 43% winning percentage.

The 76ers are 11-17 in games Maxey plays that Embiid doesn't. That's a 39% winning percentage.

I don't see enough of a difference here to continue harping this same bolded point. I also don't see anyone saying, "injuries don't matter, only the team's record with that player leading the charge position." Can you point me to that?

I'll be curious to see what this comparison looks like as the Cavs' sample size grows with Mitchell out.

As far as individual stats are concerned, Maxey blows Garland out of the water this season. He's putting up 26 points per game, averaging the exact same number of assists as Garland, however, he's turning the ball over nearly half as often as Darius. His efg% is 1 point lower, likely because Darius has slightly more 3 point volume on the same shooting percentage.

To say that you'd currently take Garland without question is denying the facts at hand in favor of subjectivity that lacks substance.

I can run down the individual stats for Desmond Bane too (the Grizzlies are 14-26 when he plays, fwiw), but he's statistically the best two-way player of the 3. He left my mind when I listed guys to compare Darius to the other day, but that's a guy I'd take over Darius on this Cavs team without thinking twice. Perfect blend of need and skillset. A Mitchell/Bane tandem would give teams absolute fits on both ends of the court.