2023 Browns Off-Season Thread II: Free Agent Marathon: Settling in for the Long Haul: Slow and Steady: Patience is a Virtue: Loose Lips Sink Ships!

[Triplethreat]

I mean, sure, ideally you'd hoard all the WRs. But as soon as you sign Hopkins, DPJ is going to demand a trade. It only makes sense from his perspective. His value may or may not lessen with a trade demand, but I'd just be proactive about seeking out a deal.

You'd have Hopkins and Cooper making good money on the back halves of their careers, Moore on a rookie deal who ideally will get expensive soon after balling out here, and Ced Tillman in development with a similar skillset to DPJ. I don't see DPJ being good enough to command big money from the Browns with salary tied up and earmarked elsewhere, so you'll have him here for this season (likely against his will) and he'll walk for a comp pick.

AB was able to talk Njoku into backing off his request, but I think it's a different situation for DPJ if Hopkins signs here.

Idk, like you said yourself, good problem to have. Won't really mind how they go about it either way.

How do we know he would demand a trade? There has been a ton of talk about 4/5 wide sets recently and the Browns offense becoming a more pass heavy offense with Watson at the helm and as it should.

Peoples Jones would still see the field a ton.

 

[Selby]

I don't think DPJ would "demand" a trade per se, but he is certainly not going to be happy with playing the WR4 role during a contract year. It isn't unreasonable to think the Browns would do right by him and trade him to a team that allows him to see the field more so he can accumulate some counting stats before hitting free agency.

Edit: it appears DPJ and Hopkins share the same agent now too. If Hopkins landed in Cleveland I would be shocked if their agent didn't tell the Browns they need to move DPJ to make this whole thing work.

 

[Soar]

This is def with Hopkins and DPJ sharing an agent, seems easy to facilitate both a signing and trade. While I’d love to keep DPJ with Hopkins it’s just not realistic that we sign DPJ long term or that DPJ is willing to be WR4. Tillman was drafted for a reason…

 

[red.]

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

No chance I'd be moving off DPJ and I'd still absolutely love to have Hopkins.

Hopkins isn't a long term answer, but having too many good WR is an amazing problem to have.

Hopkins isn’t a long-term answer, but neither is paying DPJ and Moore. I would expect the Browns to be investing in WR in the draft on almost a yearly basis to try to keep costs down at the position. Probably just better off trying to get a conditional pick for DPJ or something of that nature.

Hopkins helps bridge the gap on a short term deal and is friends with our QB. Pretty much a no-brainer. He might not be s as best WR in the league guy anymore, but Cooper, Hopkins, Moore, and Njoku as pass catchers with Chubb as a single back in the backfield causes some horrendous problems for opposing defenses.

 

[adam81king]

I was wondering if someone would noticd that Nuk and DPJ now share an agent...

What I would *love* to have happen:

-AB communicates with Kelton (who is a REALLY good dude, by the way), that the Browns want to keep DPJ long term, but don't want to overpay him *this* offseason...

-AB gets NUK on a 2yr deal, with guarantees for *this* season only...

-AB agrees to extend/resign DPJ *next* offseason when the Browns part with Nuk, Amari, or someone else.

-2024 WR room looks like either Cooper OR Nuk (reworked deal for whomever stays), DPJ (extended), Elijah, Cedric, Bell, Woods.

 

[CBBI]

How do we know he would demand a trade? There has been a ton of talk about 4/5 wide sets recently and the Browns offense becoming a more pass heavy offense with Watson at the helm and as it should.

Peoples Jones would still see the field a ton.

He wouldn't.

Want to take a guess how many snaps on average each WR4 played on each team in the league in 2022?

About 298 snaps. Divide that by 17 games and you're talking league wide that WR4's play about 17.5 snaps per game.

Most NFL teams play about 1200 snaps per season. So WR4's are playing roughly 25% of the total snaps.

I guess 1/4th of the time is a ton ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Triplethreat]

Hopkins isn’t a long-term answer, but neither is paying DPJ and Moore. I would expect the Browns to be investing in WR in the draft on almost a yearly basis to try to keep costs down at the position. Probably just better off trying to get a conditional pick for DPJ or something of that nature.

Hopkins helps bridge the gap on a short term deal and is friends with our QB. Pretty much a no-brainer. He might not be s as best WR in the league guy anymore, but Cooper, Hopkins, Moore, and Njoku as pass catchers with Chubb as a single back in the backfield causes some horrendous problems for opposing defenses.

Paying DPJ and Moore could absolutely be a long term answer.

Tyler Boyd signed a 4 year, 43 million back loaded contract with the Bengals after a 1,000 yard season.

Peoples-Jones hasn't even done that yet. I think people are vastly over reacting to what Peoples Jones and Moore's market would be and what they will command in FA.

 

[Triplethreat]

He wouldn't.

Want to take a guess how many snaps on average each WR4 played on each team in the league in 2022?

About 298 snaps. Divide that by 17 games and you're talking league wide that WR4's play about 17.5 snaps per game.

Most NFL teams play about 1200 snaps per season. So WR4's are playing roughly 25% of the total snaps.

I guess 1/4th of the time is a ton ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yes very genius, because the Browns are resigned to league averages. Tell me, how many WR4's are as good as Donovan People's Jones?

He'd have his fair share of snaps as a WR3, WR2 while giving others breaks. For all we know someone would get injured.

Once again coming in with context less, meaningless statistics that don't apply.

 

[CBBI]

Yes very genius, because the Browns are resigned to league averages. Tell me, how many WR4's are as good as Donovan People's Jones?

He'd have his fair share of snaps as a WR3, WR2 while giving others breaks. For all we know someone would get injured.

Once again coming in with context less, meaningless statistics that don't apply.

Buddy, you're the one sitting here talking about "4/5 WR sets" like that's actually a thing.

There were 89 snaps the entire season - not per team - but across the entire 32 NFL teams in the league combined where 5 wide receivers were on the field at the same time.

There were only 640 snaps total across the entire league where 4 wide receivers were on the field at the same time. Out of 36,322 total snaps.

Yes, the Browns are going to use more wide receivers and have a more open offense than years past, but no NFL team, including the upcoming 2023 Browns regularly use 4 and 5 WR sets. That just isn't a thing. Especially ones who have a high paid and highly skilled tight end like the Browns do with Njoku.

If you actually think the Browns are going to run 4/5 WR sets more than about 5% of the time, then you truly have no idea what you're talking about.

Seriously, maybe just do 2 minutes of Googling to give yourself a clue before you start spewing your nonsense.

 

[MirORich]

Yes very genius, because the Browns are resigned to league averages. Tell me, how many WR4's are as good as Donovan People's Jones?

He'd have his fair share of snaps as a WR3, WR2 while giving others breaks. For all we know someone would get injured.

Once again coming in with context less, meaningless statistics that don't apply.

The bottom line is it seems clear now that the Browns themselves, the organization are at minimum examine if they can make Hopkins work. That’s enough for me to not engage in petty old arguments about the value of es h guy in our current room.

We know this: reports indicate the Browns are absolutely switching/adding more 3 and 4 WR sets then they have previously run under Stef

We know that in the NFL injuries happen and having quality ready to step up is crucial

We know that Moore, DPJ, Tillman, and Bell are all on cheap contracts this season.

So IF the Browns want to sign Hopkins and IF they want to also keep DPJ for a final cheap contract season, whether it be due to formation or due to injury, there would be opportunity for him to make an impact and help this team.

That said, I don’t feel bad about Tillman and Bell as 4th WR options so I would have no issue if they traded DPJ for a draft pick in a scenario where they do add Hopkins.

 

[MirORich]

Buddy, you're the one sitting here talking about "4/5 WR sets" like that's actually a thing.

There were 89 snaps the entire season - not per team - but across the entire 32 NFL teams in the league combined where 5 wide receivers were on the field at the same time.

There were only 640 snaps total across the entire league where 4 wide receivers were on the field at the same time. Out of 36,322 total snaps.

Yes, the Browns are going to use more wide receivers and have a more open offense than years past, but no NFL team, including the upcoming 2023 Browns regularly use 4 and 5 WR sets. That just isn't a thing. Especially ones who have a high paid and highly skilled tight end like the Browns do with Njoku.

If you actually think the Browns are going to run 4/5 WR sets more than about 5% of the time, then you truly have no idea what you're talking about.

Seriously, maybe just do 2 minutes of Googling to give yourself a clue before you start spewing your nonsense.

Injuries, game freshness snap management, potential 4 WR sets, and cheap contract are all reasons why there is nothing wrong with the suggestion that keeping DPJ as the 4th guy is the way to go if they sign Hopkins.

The argument against keeping him if they sign Hopkins would be: does he become a locker room issue, having an opportunity to gain a draft pick, creating opportunities for Tillman and Bell

There are valid points in both sides of it

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

Paying DPJ and Moore could absolutely be a long term answer.

Tyler Boyd signed a 4 year, 43 million back loaded contract with the Bengals after a 1,000 yard season.

Peoples-Jones hasn't even done that yet. I think people are vastly over reacting to what Peoples Jones and Moore's market would be and what they will command in FA.

That was four years ago. Referencing that deal is largely irrelevant. As you said, provide some context.

The most comparable guys to DPJ in age, experience, and production that signed FA deals this year. Last years yardage in parenthesis:

Allen Lazard: 4/$44M (788)
Jakobi Meyers: 3/$33M (806)

There’s just not space to be paying all of Moore, Hopkins, Njoku, Cooper, and DPJ AAV’s of $10,000,000+. We can debate about who should stay, but there’s just no way you can drop that kind of money into a WR group when your QB is also making $50M+.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Hot take:

DPJ will be a better player heading into the playoffs this season than DeAndre Hopkins

... mainly because I don't think Nuk will make it through 17 games healthy.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Injuries, game freshness snap management, potential 4 WR sets, and cheap contract are all reasons why there is nothing wrong with the suggestion that keeping DPJ as the 4th guy is the way to go if they sign Hopkins.

The argument against keeping him if they sign Hopkins would be: does he become a locker room issue, having an opportunity to gain a draft pick, creating opportunities for Tillman and Bell

There are valid points in both sides of it

Side A:

Trade DPJ to accumulate assets that you can use to improve your team. The consequence is that your depth now looks like:

1. Cooper
2. Nuk
3. Moore
4. Tillman
5. Goodwin
6. Bell

And, by position:

X: Amari, Nuk, Moore, Tillman
Z: Nuk, Moore, Goodwin, Tillman,
Y: Moore, Bell

This comes with the added benefit of having the picks/players you traded DPJ for, which you can use as currency to improve your roster.

Side B:
Keep DPJ. Your depth now looks like:

1. Cooper
2. Nuk
3. Moore
4. DPJ
5. Tillman
6. Bell

And, by position:

X: Amari, Nuk, Moore, DPJ, Tillman
Z: Nuk, DPJ, Moore, Goodwin, Tillman,
Y: Moore, Bell, DPJ

This comes with the following downsides:

1. DPJ is now relegated to a depth position, in a contract year, after not doing anything wrong
2. Even if you keep him on the roster the entire year, he likely leaves in free agency
3. You now have to cut someone (in this scenario Marquise Goodwin).

Sure, there is credence to both sides--but in my opinion, side A is clearly the preferred option.

I'm probably comparing A and C--where C is not signing Nuk and having that 25M to spend in other areas of need.