2023 Browns Off-Season Thread II: Free Agent Marathon: Settling in for the Long Haul: Slow and Steady: Patience is a Virtue: Loose Lips Sink Ships!

[CBBI]

Injuries, game freshness snap management, potential 4 WR sets, and cheap contract are all reasons why there is nothing wrong with the suggestion that keeping DPJ as the 4th guy is the way to go if they sign Hopkins.

The argument against keeping him if they sign Hopkins would be: does he become a locker room issue, having an opportunity to gain a draft pick, creating opportunities for Tillman and Bell

There are valid points in both sides of it

At some point don’t we have to think about this from a common sense perspective?

Donovan Peoples-Jones was a sixth round pick. He’s heading into the last year of his contract.

In what reasonable scenario is he going to be ok with going from playing 1055 snaps, almost 90% of the snaps as WR2 last year to playing 300 snaps as WR4 this upcoming year?

In what reasonable scenario are the Browns going to hold onto a guy and kill his production, which in turn kills his value on the free agency market, which in turn kills the Browns own ability to recoup a quality compensation pick when he leaves?

This isn’t Madden. There’s a human element to this stuff that gets ignored far too often.

Hoarding talent on the off chance multiple players gets injured, especially when you still Tillman (and Bell, and Goodwin) in place who would be able to step in to those WR4 snaps, it just doesn’t make sense.

 

[Surge]

As a big DPJ fan I wouldn't let his situaion/future steer me away from signing Hopkins for a year.

Just win baby.

 

[Lee]

Buddy, you're the one sitting here talking about "4/5 WR sets" like that's actually a thing.

There were 89 snaps the entire season - not per team - but across the entire 32 NFL teams in the league combined where 5 wide receivers were on the field at the same time.

There were only 640 snaps total across the entire league where 4 wide receivers were on the field at the same time. Out of 36,322 total snaps.

Yes, the Browns are going to use more wide receivers and have a more open offense than years past, but no NFL team, including the upcoming 2023 Browns regularly use 4 and 5 WR sets. That just isn't a thing. Especially ones who have a high paid and highly skilled tight end like the Browns do with Njoku.

If you actually think the Browns are going to run 4/5 WR sets more than about 5% of the time, then you truly have no idea what you're talking about.

Seriously, maybe just do 2 minutes of Googling to give yourself a clue before you start spewing your nonsense.

While a valid point,, you did prove that 4 and 5 WR sets are a thing, just not a common thing, lol

5 WR sets were 5 a week, and each team averaged 3 for the whole year, so very, very rate

4 WR sets were 35.5 a week, so about once a game per a team, so rare, but once a game per a team.

Just find it funny you saying not a thing, they are a thing, just stupid rare, and with a 4 WR set, that takes away a TE or Back. 2 of our better players, and I wonder on your stats how many counted someone like Kelce as a WR? Maybe not, but if out wide he is more WR than most WR's, lol

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

While a valid point,, you did prove that 4 and 5 WR sets are a thing, just not a common thing, lol

5 WR sets were 5 a week, and each team averaged 3 for the whole year, so very, very rate

4 WR sets were 35.5 a week, so about once a game per a team, so rare, but once a game per a team.

Just find it funny you saying not a thing, they are a thing, just stupid rare, and with a 4 WR set, that takes away a TE or Back. 2 of our better players, and I wonder on your stats how many counted someone like Kelce as a WR? Maybe not, but if out wide he is more WR than most WR's, lol

None of those numbers he quoted count tight ends as wide receivers. You're spot on that "tight ends" like Kelce pretty much play slot receiver more than they play tight end.

If we want four pass catchers and one running back on the field, Njoku is absolutely one of those pass catchers--so like @CBBI said, it's very rare to get your fourth wide receiver out there.

 

[Jack Brickman]

While a valid point,, you did prove that 4 and 5 WR sets are a thing, just not a common thing, lol

5 WR sets were 5 a week, and each team averaged 3 for the whole year, so very, very rate

4 WR sets were 35.5 a week, so about once a game per a team, so rare, but once a game per a team.

Just find it funny you saying not a thing, they are a thing, just stupid rare, and with a 4 WR set, that takes away a TE or Back. 2 of our better players, and I wonder on your stats how many counted someone like Kelce as a WR? Maybe not, but if out wide he is more WR than most WR's, lol

Five wide sets are basically the end of game hail mary plays that rarely ever work out. That's about the only time you ever see them.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

Side A:

Trade DPJ to accumulate assets that you can use to improve your team. The consequence is that your depth now looks like:

1. Cooper
2. Nuk
3. Moore
4. Tillman
5. Goodwin
6. Bell

And, by position:

X: Amari, Nuk, Moore, Tillman
Z: Nuk, Moore, Goodwin, Tillman,
Y: Moore, Bell

This comes with the added benefit of having the picks/players you traded DPJ for, which you can use as currency to improve your roster.

Side B:
Keep DPJ. Your depth now looks like:

1. Cooper
2. Nuk
3. Moore
4. DPJ
5. Tillman
6. Bell

And, by position:

X: Amari, Nuk, Moore, DPJ, Tillman
Z: Nuk, DPJ, Moore, Goodwin, Tillman,
Y: Moore, Bell, DPJ

This comes with the following downsides:

1. DPJ is now relegated to a depth position, in a contract year, after not doing anything wrong
2. Even if you keep him on the roster the entire year, he likely leaves in free agency
3. You now have to cut someone (in this scenario Marquise Goodwin).

Sure, there is credence to both sides--but in my opinion, side A is clearly the preferred option.

I'm probably comparing A and C--where C is not signing Nuk and having that 25M to spend in other areas of need.

If we signed Hopkins, my aim would be to trade DPJ for a conditional 5th rounder that could become a 3rd based on production and playing time. Not sure if you can get that with him in a contract year, but that’s the type of deal I’d be looking for.

 

[Lee]

So I am back and forth on Hopkins, He had a worse QB, but decently loaded WR room in AZ, thus his down stats on both ends. If he comes in to Cleveland and we trade DPJ to make room in the room, it still pretty loaded, on top of Hopkins being 31 years old.

My issue is Hopkins still has value, elite hands and ball hawking, but he isnt the speedster he used to be and just doesnt get the same separation. I fear Hopkins will get over paid because he is going to be paid when he was the best WR in football 5 years ago, now he really isnt even top 20.

 

[Lee]

Five wide sets are basically the end of game hail mary plays that rarely ever work out. That's about the only time you ever see them.

I know, just found it funny that he siad it isnt a thing, they each team averaged 3 year...oh its a thing, just not something to count on happening very often.....i have a weird sense of humor, you should know that by now, lol

 

[Jack Brickman]

So I am back and forth on Hopkins, He had a worse QB, but decently loaded WR room in AZ, thus his down stats on both ends. If he comes in to Cleveland and we trade DPJ to make room in the room, it still pretty loaded, on top of Hopkins being 31 years old.

My issue is Hopkins still has value, elite hands and ball hawking, but he isnt the speedster he used to be and just doesnt get the same separation. I fear Hopkins will get over paid because he is going to be paid when he was the best WR in football 5 years ago, now he really isnt even top 20.

Hopkins was never really known for being a speedster. He's like a 4.55 guy. Adequate speed for the position and a bit above average relative to his size, but even in his prime years he wasn't anywhere close to Tyreek Hill.

 

[MirORich]

At some point don’t we have to think about this from a common sense perspective?

Donovan Peoples-Jones was a sixth round pick. He’s heading into the last year of his contract.

In what reasonable scenario is he going to be ok with going from playing 1055 snaps, almost 90% of the snaps as WR2 last year to playing 300 snaps as WR4 this upcoming year?

In what reasonable scenario are the Browns going to hold onto a guy and kill his production, which in turn kills his value on the free agency market, which in turn kills the Browns own ability to recoup a quality compensation pick when he leaves?

This isn’t Madden. There’s a human element to this stuff that gets ignored far too often.

Hoarding talent on the off chance multiple players gets injured, especially when you still Tillman (and Bell, and Goodwin) in place who would be able to step in to those WR4 snaps, it just doesn’t make sense.

Yeah, that’s why I said it’s totally valid to think that they might look to move DPJ IF they sign Hopkins. Just don’t think it would be set in stone either.

What if the best you could get was a 5th or 6th? I might prefer the player on the roster value for one final season over that

 

[Lee]

Hopkins was never really known for being a speedster. He's like a 4.55 guy. Adequate speed for the position and a bit above average relative to his size, but even in his prime years he wasn't anywhere close to Tyreek Hill.

No, but he had speed to separate and size to avoid contact at the line slowing him down, still has the size, but the speed is below average for sure. WHy I go back and forth, will be paid like he is as good as 5 years ago...still good, but no longer an elite WR.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

No, but he had speed to separate and size to avoid contact at the line slowing him down, still has the size, but the speed is below average for sure. WHy I go back and forth, will be paid like he is as good as 5 years ago...still good, but no longer an elite WR.

People focus WAY too much on 40-times.

They don't matter.

You separate more with footwork and your brain than you do with track speed.

Even at his peak, Nuk never really separated. He's never been Amari Cooper or even Davante Adams at the line. He's just a big, physical dude who wins every ball thrown his way.

I 100% agree with you that his speed is down--but more importantly, his agility is down. He's older. He's stiffer. And, we don't get LESS injury-prone as we age.

I don't think Nuk comes here. I think there are other options and fits that are better for him. But, even if we do have the ability to sign him, I'm not sure I would... and I love the player. At least, I love what he was.

 

[Lee]

People focus WAY too much on 40-times.

They don't matter.

You separate more with footwork and your brain than you do with track speed.

Even at his peak, Nuk never really separated. He's never been Amari Cooper or even Davante Adams at the line. He's just a big, physical dude who wins every ball thrown his way.

I 100% agree with you that his speed is down--but more importantly, his agility is down. He's older. He's stiffer. And, we don't get LESS injury-prone as we age.

I don't think Nuk comes here. I think there are other options and fits that are better for him. But, even if we do have the ability to sign him, I'm not sure I would... and I love the player. At least, I love what he was.

I dont disagree, but I probably watch more Cardinals football than most Browns fan because I live out here, he really hasnt been the same WR, injuries, bad QB, age, not sure 100% the reasons, and sadly Hopkins was my favorite WR 5 years ago. Just dont really want him for what he will cost.

 

[Hurl Bruce]

 

[MirORich]

I dont disagree, but I probably watch more Cardinals football than most Browns fan because I live out here, he really hasnt been the same WR, injuries, bad QB, age, not sure 100% the reasons, and sadly Hopkins was my favorite WR 5 years ago. Just dont really want him for what he will cost.

Buffalo and KC have the least amount of cap space in the league urrentky according to Spotrac.

Those are the teams believed to be most interested. Those are the teams we believe we’re competing with this year. These teams are all in Conference Championship/Super Bowl now mode and all apparently believe Hopkins(at the right price) is worth it to add to their WR rooms