2023 Cleveland Guardians Season Thread

[CDAV45]

Three outcome baseball is what was turning the younger crowds away... HRs, SOs or BBs doesn't excite the crowds. They want to see hits and lots of them... They want to see offense and people on the bases. HRs are nice but they are too few to really keep the attention of the younger groups in stereotyping...

You're wrong, but whatever. You're entitled to your opinion, but nobody ever said anything about eliminating hits other than HR's. Again, you're taking it somewhere it was never meant to go.

 

[DCTribefan]

No they don't want to see "more constant action". They want to see demonstrative hits and the excitement generated from those. In the decades of watching baseball with folks of all kinds in the many games I've been to, not once have I ever heard a complaint about the length of a regular 9 inning game. This is nothing but a means to try and level the playing field between the teams that can afford to fill their lineups with sluggers and the teams that can't. It's about parity and nothing more. They won't get a f'n increase of a single fan because of these new rules.

By the way, there's nothing wrong with hits and stolen bases. At no time in history has either of those been frowned upon. They aren't as productive or entertaining as HR's, but they are certainly needed in the game. Now the stolen bases are going to be artificially inflated and likely dramatically so. I think it will take from the integrity of the game, but that's just me.

You’ve never heard a casual fan complain about how long games run? Really?

 

[CDAV45]

You’ve never heard a casual fan complain about how long games run? Really?

Not never.

Edited to repeat the emphasis on a regular 9 inning game. Hell, in the bleachers or on the porch we typically had so much fun we didn't want the game to end when it did.

 

[ajz20]

Not never.

Edited to repeat the emphasis on a regular 9 inning game. Hell, in the bleachers or on the porch we typically had so much fun we didn't want the game to end when it did.

I have literally seen fans leave early for over 30 years when the game dragged on . Way more than any football or basketball game I have attended and I have gone to a ton over the last 3.5 decades. I think this is a good thing long term.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Here's the thing--when someone explains why they don't like baseball with "I don't want to waste four hours..." they don't mean that the game is too long. If it were only two, they wouldn't want to waste two hours.

The time at the end isn't what you should pay attention to--it's the word "waste."

A lot of people just won't find the core of baseball exciting. Basketball is constant movement and feats of athleticism. Baseball is watching someone throw a ball at another guy a few times until eventually something happens.

Football games are taking over four hours now and people still watch them more than ever. Why? Because they like the game. They like seeing incredible athletes doing athletic things against one another. They like the tackles, the passes, the jumping grabs, it's all interesting.

If you look at the ridiculous amount of down time in every football game combined with the total duration, and then look at the popularity of the NFL, I can't believe the MLB is still fixated on things like pace of play.

I like the changes (except the throws over to first). I think it'll make it more enjoyable for me to watch games more closely rather than put them on and look at my phone or laptop. But I don't think it's going to change the mind of someone who doesn't like baseball.

 

[Anglefan]

I could go either way on the extra wide bases, although I don’t think rewarding and incentivizing athleticism can be a long term negative

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I could go either way on the extra wide bases, although I don’t think rewarding and incentivizing athleticism can be a long term negative

I assume larger bases means fewer of the "he bounced up off the bag by a centimeter for a single frame, so technically he's out" calls.

Those suck and are 100% not in the spirit of the game.

 

[CDAV45]

I could go either way on the extra wide bases, although I don’t think rewarding and incentivizing athleticism can be a long term negative

Enlarging the bases and limiting throws to first would actually be rewarding those less athletic wouldn't it?

 

[Anglefan]

Enlarging the bases and limiting throws to first would actually be rewarding those less athletic wouldn't it?

How so? If it’s so dramatically more easy to steal bases now, doesn’t that create a greater emphasis on speed? Unathletic people don’t have speed. Now it’s more important than it was. Pitcher’s throwing ability over to 1st never had any impact on their value, so if you’re saying from the pitcher’s perspective it lowers the athletic threshold, that’s not a very convincing argument

 

[CDAV45]

How so? If it’s so dramatically more easy to steal bases now, doesn’t that create a greater emphasis on speed? Unathletic people don’t have speed. Now it’s more important than it was. Pitcher’s throwing ability over to 1st never had any impact on their value, so if you’re saying from the pitcher’s perspective it lowers the athletic threshold, that’s not a very convincing argument

Making something easier does the exact opposite of what you said. It’s not supposed to be easy which is why only the fastest, most intelligent base runners were good at it.

 

[Anglefan]

Making something easier does the exact opposite of what you said. It’s not supposed to be easy which is why only the fastest, most intelligent base runners were good at it.

It’s not the opposite of what I said. It making it easier proves my point. It makes athleticism MORE valuable than it is now, which I am saying cannot be a long term negative for the game

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Making something easier does the exact opposite of what you said. It’s not supposed to be easy which is why only the fastest, most intelligent base runners were good at it.

@Anglefan is right.

This isn't making it so that Cecil Fielder could steal bases.

This is making it so that guys who are fast enough to steal have value again.

Base stealing was losing its value as people crunched the numbers and realized the risk was rarely worth the reward. This puts a finger on the scale to help make speed more valuable.

 

[CDAV45]

@Anglefan is right.

This isn't making it so that Cecil Fielder could steal bases.

This is making it so that guys who are fast enough to steal have value again.

There were guys fast enough to steal for 100 yrs. What they did is enable some that weren’t capable prior to the change. It doesn’t matter because it’s done and there is going to be more steals.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

There were guys fast enough to steal for 100 yrs. What they did is enable some that weren’t capable prior to the change. It doesn’t matter because it’s done and there is going to be more steals.

First, I added some more to my post in edit. Does reading that change your mind?

Second, are you really going to be this stubborn? You know base stealing has been down.

Last year, the stolen base king had 35. In 1993, 19 players had 35 or more and Lofton doubled that.

It's not like guys got slower or worse at it--managers just realized the outs hurt more than the extra bases were worth.

Let's say someone was able to steal on a good jump with a 73% success rate. Well, maybe the numbers say that isn't really going to increase our expected runs, so he doesn't steal often.

Now, if that player is able to increase his success rate to 80% and the math says go for it, you brought base stealing back.

And that's good. People like stealing bases. It's exciting. I'd kill for the fun of a Lofton 2.0. I hope the rules changes make that possible again

 

[CDAV45]

First, I added some more to my post in edit. Does reading that change your mind?

Second, are you really going to be this stubborn? You know base stealing has been down.

Last year, the stolen base king had 35. In 1993, 19 players had 35 or more and Lofton doubled that.

It's not like guys got slower or worse at it--managers just realized the outs hurt more than the extra bases were worth.

Let's say someone was able to steal on a good jump with a 73% success rate. Well, maybe the numbers say that isn't really going to increase our expected runs, so he doesn't steal often.

Now, if that player is able to increase his success rate to 80% and the math says go for it, you brought base stealing back.

And that's good. People like stealing bases. It's exciting. I'd kill for the fun of a Lofton 2.0. I hope the rules changes make that possible again

I'm glad you like it.