2023 Guardians Offseason Thread!

[CATS44]

I'm in general agreement with Pete over not offering Maile a contract, but I disagree that not doing so cost us leverage.

The best package in a trade wins and the most money offered to a generally FA does, too. It doesn't matter if we have three MLB catchers or none, if we offer more for...say...Murphy, we will get him.

In mapping out our individual WAGs, two moves by the FO already provide a road map.

We are not going into the season without a MLB catcher, and we are not gonna carry nine MIFs on the 40 man.

 

[CDAV45]

I don’t think, healthy or unhealthy, Jansen can sniff Murphy’s jock defensively. And that’s a very important aspect of the position he is being asked to play.

And it’s where the value is coming from that is more important to me.

Jansen won’t cost as much prospect wise, because the Jays aren’t interested in pure prospect trades at the moment. They’re going to want MLB pitching, and good pitching at that. Jansen, with multiple years of team control at a weak position league wide, would fetch considerably more than Teoscar Hernandez did, who plays a saturated position and is a FA after this season. And Hernandez sent back an MLB ready late game reliever coming off a 57 appearance, sub 1.70 ERA season.

Trading for Jansen will cost you Karinchak, Stephan, or Hentges plus prospects.

Again, my interest in Murphy stems from the Amed Rosario decision. If he sticks around past this season he makes a lot of prospects, ones that would get a deal done for Murphy very quickly, expendable.

It’s an argument between weakening one of your MLB roster strengths and bolstering a potential playoff opponents bullpen, vs trading out of prospect depth and which you value more.

Not as simple as if we are just trading out of the same prospect player pool and comparing value.

I like Jansen, he’d be a solid improvement over what we’ve had at C. I just don’t buy that he is going to be good enough to justify what you are going to give up for him to get him should you do it. You are trading for him at the peak of his value over the last 3 seasons.

I think some of you guys are underestimating what it would cost to acquire Jansen and think he can be had for pennies on the dollar. Not the case.

Fair points, but I'm not one that thinks Jansen can be had for pennies on the dollar. I simply think he'll be substantially cheaper than Murphy. When I weigh the cost and benefits it seems to me that Jansen is the better fit and value for this team. I also believe(just my opinion) that Jansen will continue to produce better than Murphy offensively. Defensively, I have no doubt that what you say is true, but I also have no doubts that Jansen is a very good defensive C as well. Conversely, I have no doubts that Murphy's bat is good as well. Considering what you suggest that it would take to get Jansen, I'd gladly give Karinchak and certain prospects for him. I'd do that because this organization seems to grow pitchers on trees and we've had shitty offensive catchers for quite some time now. That and Jansen's 141 OPS+, .855 OPS and .516 SLG would be nice at DH when he's not C should he continue to post good numbers like that. You couldn't get me to argue that it wouldn't be a risk, but nothing in baseball is guaranteed and I see Jansen's 2022 offensive performance as just an example of what he will do with some consistent playing time.

Thanks Bimbo. We may not agree on everything, but this is how these conversations should go. I don't know about you, but I enjoy it.

 

[CDAV45]

Who is willing to trade one of Valera, Williams, Espino for Murphy?
Keep in mind, the G's could probably recoup some value by trading Murphy before he becomes a FA in 25.

I would be utterly pissed off. Especially if Naylor performs well in 23.

 

[CDAV45]

I'd consider all 3 for different reasons.

Valera is probably the lowest ranked in my offseason ranking because of contact issue, but he's a power bat of need.

Rocchio is my no1. I'd only make him available if there are long term concerns about his head injury.

G. Williams is the only I'd make available, as much as I like him. One, he's a pitcher, so more injury risk. Two, he's a pitcher, where the org is good at developing. Three, there are currently other pitchers as good or better in the system (Espino/Bibee). Four, still some control and RP risk.

For me, if I have to give up one of Espino, Bibee or Williams it would be Espino. Of the 3, I think he'll be the one to struggle with injury. Williams pitches with what looks like little effort. All he needs to do is fine tune his control to become a true ace. Bibee's mechanics are clean and his control is impeccable. Now that his stuff ticked up I think they could throw him to the wolves right now and he would be better than 2/3 of our current rotation.

I have no problem giving up Valera in the right deal. Rocchio I'm a bit more reluctant and his availability is directly tied to Arias' performance IMO. Arias hits the ground running then by all means. If he struggles the Rocchio is the next man up.

 

[BimboColesHair]

FWIW, it's my belief Cleveland likes Moreno and Kirk considerably more than Jansen. That stems back to conversations about Jose last winter and spring.

 

[CDAV45]

FWIW, it's my belief Cleveland likes Moreno and Kirk considerably more than Jansen. That stems back to conversations about Jose last winter and spring.

Nothing to do with this and I wanted to share it with someone who would appreciate it. My son just sent me a txt. He squatted 405 for 3 reps, benched 300 for 3 reps and ran a 6.64 60! Not a bad time for a 6' 195lb kid.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Nothing to do with this and I wanted to share it with someone who would appreciate it. My son just sent me a txt. He squatted 405 for 3 reps, benched 300 for 3 reps and ran a 6.64 60! Not a bad time for a 6' 195lb kid.

Not bad at all. Moving pretty good there.

 

[CDAV45]

Not bad at all. Moving pretty good there.

I thought it was pretty good. He can hit and has some power too. I'm excited for spring to get here. Sorry, carry on.

 

[CDAV45]

FWIW, it's my belief Cleveland likes Moreno and Kirk considerably more than Jansen. That stems back to conversations about Jose last winter and spring.

You think they like Kirk more? I know he can hit and all, but he's suspect defensively isn't he? His body type doesn't exactly scream longevity either. He can certainly swing the stick though.

 

[BimboColesHair]

You think they like Kirk more? I know he can hit and all, but he's suspect defensively isn't he? His body type doesn't exactly scream longevity either. He can certainly swing the stick though.

I know they do. They asked for Moreno and Kirk in any potential Jose deal.

And he turned into a good C defensively this past season. Top 5 framing catcher in baseball last year. Him and Jansen are a wash with their arms too. Same average pop times, virtually the same CS%. If you think Jansen is a good C defensively, you should say the same about Kirk. He just came off a season where he was arguably better than Jansen defensively.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Fun bit of scoopage heard today.

Guards offered Rodon a multi-year deal last off-season.

He opted for a 1 year prove it deal and is in line to probably get 9 figures on his next deal.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

You think they like Kirk more? I know he can hit and all, but he's suspect defensively isn't he? His body type doesn't exactly scream longevity either. He can certainly swing the stick though.

I was able to get fantastic seats to a G's- Jays game last season. Very close to home plate. Kirk was the catcher. He seemed to drop every other ball. (Of course, I'm no scout). I just don't see him as Tito's kind of catcher.

 

[AZ_]

Fun bit of scoopage heard today.

Guards offered Rodon a multi-year deal last off-season.

He opted for a 1 year prove it deal and is in line to probably get 9 figures on his next deal.

Boooooo.

Rodon could have really been something on this squad last year the way he pitched.

Would be interesting to see if they'd re-approach Carlos Rodon on a two-year deal.

Meisel said they offered him a contract last off-season, adding his bat missing ability from the left in this rotation would be filth.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Boooooo.

Rodon could have really been something on this squad last year the way he pitched.

They apparently approached him recently within the last few days.

How this got back to me. Never heard Meisel report on it. Good scoop by him if that’s the case.

But still points to the idea by offering him a multi year deal and attempting to trade for Mahle that they are seriously trying to improve the rotation.

 

[Martyinnewyork]

Rodin is gonna be WAY out of our budget