2023 Season | Series #29 | Royals @ Guardians | July 6-9, 2023

[Benway]

Neither Morris nor Cantillo will be starting in Cleveland this year really...

Barring unforeseen circumstances of course.

 

[petes999]

Morris just hasn't been very good so far.

I think Morris is destined for the pen with what we have as next year's Curry (MIR) - to gain experience. Yet, he has been good -- just don't see him being healthy (yet). In 25-2/3 mlb innings, he has 2.10 ERA and 0.6 WAR (per BR). Yes, in last few MiLB innings, he has let in a few runs (spiking his ERA for July) but he has the goods (unlike Pilk where I said sometimes pitchers get sent down don't look good as they are working on stuff but look good when they come up as they focus on their strengths).

But, I saw this from Todd when trying to figure out why someone says Morris hasn't been very good so far.

https://www.si.com/mlb/guardians/opinion/the-guardians-have-a-new-secret-weapon-in-their-bullpen

 

[CDAV45]

Neither Morris nor Cantillo will be starting in Cleveland this year really...

Nobody has said either would be starting. I did however mention that they could be part of a piggyback.

Morris has proven that he is plenty good enough to pitch in MLB. Cantillo is proving to be the same. Both will pitch in Cleveland this year.

 

[KluberSociety]

I think Morris is destined for the pen with what we have as next year's Curry (MIR) - to gain experience. Yet, he has been good -- just don't see him being healthy (yet). In 25-2/3 mlb innings, he has 2.10 ERA and 0.6 WAR (per BR). Yes, in last few MiLB innings, he has let in a few runs (spiking his ERA for July) but he has the goods (unlike Pilk where I said sometimes pitchers get sent down don't look good as they are working on stuff but look good when they come up as they focus on their strengths).

But, I saw this from Todd when trying to figure out why someone says Morris hasn't been very good so far.

https://www.si.com/mlb/guardians/opinion/the-guardians-have-a-new-secret-weapon-in-their-bullpen

I should've specified he hasn't been very good so far if you look at AAA/MLB combined but yeah the velocity thing just seems like he can't hold it as a starter anyway which is why he should stay in the bullpen. The thing I'm worried about with Morris is his command which probably is fine as a reliever especially if he throws hard as his K numbers should be super high, but it further just limits his utility as a starter because he's going to be throwing a ton of pitches and he isn't durable to begin with. So like with all the other options he has multiple red flags for being used as a starter, and also just the added thing that he could have significant value as a reliever which is wasted out of the rotation.

 

[Gson]

I should've specified he hasn't been very good so far if you look at AAA/MLB combined but yeah the velocity thing just seems like he can't hold it as a starter anyway which is why he should stay in the bullpen. The thing I'm worried about with Morris is his command which probably is fine as a reliever especially if he throws hard as his K numbers should be super high, but it further just limits his utility as a starter because he's going to be throwing a ton of pitches and he isn't durable to begin with. So like with all the other options he has multiple red flags for being used as a starter, and also just the added thing that he could have significant value as a reliever which is wasted out of the rotation.

I like Morris in a starting role.. if he can get back to starting by being effective as a reliever for enough time to prove he can hold up.. so much better for the club...

 

[KluberSociety]

I like Morris in a starting role.. if he can get back to starting by being effective as a reliever for enough time to prove he can hold up.. so much better for the club...

I don't understand how he can ever "prove" anything regarding durability which would overwrite his history to date. Even if he stays healthy he can't hold the velo

 

[Gson]

I don't understand how he can ever "prove" anything regarding durability which would overwrite his history to date. Even if he stays healthy he can't hold the velo

start with being a Single Inning successful Relief Pitcher.. move to more/higher leverage roles.. become a multi-inning or bulk reliever.. grow the work load.. keep up the stats on durability and strength numbers.. including velo..

 

[BimboColesHair]

I need to dig a little deeper with Cantillo. I'm not sure how he's trending or what he's working on. We need to be careful when evaluating some of our minor league pitchers. There's develop going on irrespective on numbers. I can't intelligently speak to that, but maybe @BimboColesHair can chime in with some good information. There is the possibility that he just struggles with control, but I have no way of confirming/denying that accusation.

When you add 3-5 MPH on your arsenal and only pitch 13 competitive innings between those changes you are going to have to relearn the movement of your pitches. That only comes with stacking up innings. So you can see why getting hurt after 60 IP the following year might lengthen some of those issues further.

He's getting closer to the control he had prior to the injury and velo increases on his stuff. But he just needs to stay healthy and pitch innings. Only thing that is going to help him fix the problem. He just hasn't pitched enough with his new stuff the past 3 years. He just hasn't pitched enough period.

 

[CDAV45]

When you add 3-5 MPH on your arsenal and only pitch 13 competitive innings between those changes you are going to have to relearn the movement of your pitches. That only comes with stacking up innings. So you can see why getting hurt after 60 IP the following year might lengthen some of those issues further.

He's getting closer to the control he had prior to the injury and velo increases on his stuff. But he just needs to stay healthy and pitch innings. Only thing that is going to help him fix the problem. He just hasn't pitched enough with his new stuff the past 3 years. He just hasn't pitched enough period.

You've been away for awhile and I have so many questions. When you get a minute give us your thoughts on how Hankins and Burns are doing. From the games I've watched him pitch, Burns looks more physically mature than ever before. Hopefully that will translate into staying healthier. I think he could actually pitch effectively in Cleveland right now, but I'm sure he'd take his lumps too.

 

[KluberSociety]

start with being a Single Inning successful Relief Pitcher.. move to more/higher leverage roles.. become a multi-inning or bulk reliever.. grow the work load.. keep up the stats on durability and strength numbers.. including velo..

Stretch the rubber band further and further until it inevitably breaks... or keep it where it is doing its job?

 

[Gson]

Stretch the rubber band further and further until it inevitably breaks... or keep it where it is doing its job?

stretch it.. doing it's job is 6 innings plus and / or 100 pitches per outing.. While you won't expect that tomorrow... that's the goal..

 

[Gson]

Nobody has said either would be starting. I did however mention that they could be part of a piggyback.

Morris has proven that he is plenty good enough to pitch in MLB. Cantillo is proving to be the same. Both will pitch in Cleveland this year.

If you really want to see Cantillo against theeeee best competition he'll ever face as a MiLB'er.. look around the 20 minute mark through about the 28 minute mark of on this link..

https://www.mlb.com/video/2023-all-star-futures-game

Mid/Upper 90's FB.. coupled with an 82 MPH vulcan change and a hook that falls off the table.. Other that an inconsequential walk.. Joey gave up NOTHING against the best the MiLB's has to offer.. If he were to come up and pitch like he does in this vid from almost three whole days ago.. I pity the guys in the box.. especially the lefties.. He'll be here.. and he can get ML'ers out.. we'll see..

Thoughts

 

[BimboColesHair]

If you really want to see Cantillo against theeeee best competition he'll ever face as a MiLB'er.. look around the 20 minute mark through about the 28 minute mark of on this link..

https://www.mlb.com/video/2023-all-star-futures-game

Mid/Upper 90's FB.. coupled with an 82 MPH vulcan change and a hook that falls off the table.. Other that an inconsequential walk.. Joey gave up NOTHING against the best the MiLB's has to offer.. If he were to come up and pitch like he does in this vid from almost three whole days ago.. I pity the guys in the box.. especially the lefties.. He'll be here.. and he can get ML'ers out.. we'll see..

Thoughts

He was getting MLB players out in 2020.

 

[CDAV45]

If you really want to see Cantillo against theeeee best competition he'll ever face as a MiLB'er.. look around the 20 minute mark through about the 28 minute mark of on this link..

https://www.mlb.com/video/2023-all-star-futures-game

Mid/Upper 90's FB.. coupled with an 82 MPH vulcan change and a hook that falls off the table.. Other that an inconsequential walk.. Joey gave up NOTHING against the best the MiLB's has to offer.. If he were to come up and pitch like he does in this vid from almost three whole days ago.. I pity the guys in the box.. especially the lefties.. He'll be here.. and he can get ML'ers out.. we'll see..

Thoughts

He's got the stuff for sure. The question is can he pitch in and around the zone with all of his pitches enough to get ML hitters to chase? We should find out sometime in the second half........maybe.

 

[KluberSociety]

I think in this kind of role he has by far the best chance of adding value to the team this year, just emptying his arm over a short period before the hitters get time to adjust and start laying off more of his pitches. Question is, would he really be that much of an improvement over Herrin to shift him (probably temporarily) over to the bullpen while he continues to start next year? While I think even long term his best bet might be as a reliever there's no reason YET to make any shifts so it just seems like it'd be an awkward situation. I really don't think he's ready to provide the starting innings at the MLB level though, at all.