2023 Season | Series #31 | Guardians @ Pirates | July 17-19, 2023

[BimboColesHair]

Ten years from now, someone will write a book about this season.

If it ends the way I think it does, most likely.

 

[The Oi]

Have to imagine this has been asked, but…

Exactly what the hell has changed with Josh Naylor?!

 

[KluberSociety]

Not a straightforward, single person or part of the organization.

Just remember. Decision makers are dealing with real people and relationships when they make moves. Can't operate in a vacuum like you're on an internet forum.

Yeah I know that. I work for a business much bigger than the Guardians, and accountability generally rests at the top of an organization. While maybe people below them are contributing to the circus, ultimately the ringleader needs to get that under control or they aren't doing their job. Clearly there's things that can be done which aren't being done by the people in the FO.

 

[KluberSociety]

If it ends the way I think it does, most likely.

Suspense builds... waiting for the grand reveal




... of an Amed Rosario extension.

 

[The Oi]

Amed Rosario has been hot lately. Gotta lock him up.

 

[cliffdawg]

That's not an argument, that's basically just saying have faith in the professionals who make those decisions. And even if those rookies need to take their lumps...if they don't take them this season (very hard to have been worse than Amed), they'll take them next year, so that's a double minus if your evaluation is correct.

The same professionals made lots of poor decisions (Zunino, Yandy, Caminero etc), so it's well within the range of probability that it's just another poor decision. It happens, they're not perfect.

All right you have a point on potential next year struggling, I leave this debate, before I get my ass in trouble, defending someone who I could careless about, I just want to win games now, I hate looking into the future with these sports team in Cleveland……lol

 

[CDAV45]

This shit is funny to me Rosario is not the reason we’re losing games, but the hate is real….If we can’t fix the middle reliever, won’t matter who’s playing SS, or CF we have lost 5/6 games just in the last 3weeks because our fucking reliever can’t hold a lead …..I look at the whole team when I’m judging this team, not just 1 or 2 players I get everyone wants to see the young SS , I do to but I know they will be here next year, I could wait. I think Rocchio is the real deal, but I’m not going to piss off my franchise player to satisfy a few fans when he not the reason we’re losing.

Yeah I'm gonna go ahead and claim BS. He's contributed to the losses as much as anyone with his "can't hit until June and shitty defense". Yesterday's game is a good example. Yes, Stephan and Hentges should have pitched better, but you cannot deny that Rosario's bad feed to Gimenez cost the team that inning. It was a relatively easy double play messed up by another bad throw by Amed. If it wasn't for Gimenez's insane athletic ability the runner would have been safe at 2B as well.

If your "franchise player" is going to get pissed off because you're trying to improve the team then he shouldn't have that title. I'm not even saying they should get rid of Amed, but I am saying he and Straw should not be fixtures in the lineup every damn day.

Edited to add that I think Jose is the quintessential professional and wouldn't allow decisions outside of his control to interfere with his work ethic/professionalism.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Yeah I know that. I work for a business much bigger than the Guardians, and accountability generally rests at the top of an organization. While maybe people below them are contributing to the circus, ultimately the ringleader needs to get that under control or they aren't doing their job. Clearly there's things that can be done which aren't being done by the people in the FO.

Building a baseball roster is a bit different than running a business though.

There's a reason the GM or President of Baseball Ops isn't in charge of the business side of things for their respective clubs.

 

[CDAV45]

That's not an argument, that's basically just saying have faith in the professionals who make those decisions. And even if those rookies need to take their lumps...if they don't take them this season (very hard to have been worse than Amed), they'll take them next year, so that's a double minus if your evaluation is correct.

The same professionals made lots of poor decisions (Zunino, Yandy, Caminero etc), so it's well within the range of probability that it's just another poor decision. It happens, they're not perfect.

I'll take this in a different direction. I don't think they made a poor decision when it came to Zunino. Hell, I was excited about the possibility that he might find his 2021 form and really help us this season. They weren't wrong for giving him a shot and they weren't wrong for clearly stating "this isn't working out" and releasing him. My question is why stop there? There are a couple of others that at the very least deserve to have their roles reduced. Like you said, and I've stated numerous times, we're kicking the can down the road with guys like Rocchio, Arias and Freeman to name a few.

 

[BimboColesHair]

I'll take this in a different direction. I don't think they made a poor decision when it came to Zunino. Hell, I was excited about the possibility that he might find his 2021 form and really help us this season. They weren't wrong for giving him a shot and they weren't wrong for clearly stating "this isn't working out" and releasing him. My question is why stop there? There are a couple of others that at the very least deserve to have their roles reduced. Like you said, and I've stated numerous times, we're kicking the can down the road with guys like Rocchio, Arias and Freeman to name a few.

Zunino was exactly what it was when he signed.

A low risk, high reward move. If he was able to regain his pre-injury form he is a steal for what you are paying him. If he flames out and its clear he isn't the same player anymore he's an easy guy to cut bait with.

And here's one for the Tito is out of touch people just to chew on. Tito wanted to open the season with Bo as his starting catcher.

 

[KluberSociety]

Building a baseball roster is a bit different than running a business though.

There's a reason the GM or President of Baseball Ops isn't in charge of the business side of things for their respective clubs.

Though both departments require some level of strategic decision-making for which their respective leaders need to take some sort of accountability...

And it probably helps at least to be aligned to some degree, for things like making sure Amed Rosario is still around for Amed Rosario Bobblehead Day.

 

[CDAV45]

Zunino was exactly what it was when he signed.

A low risk, high reward move. If he was able to regain his pre-injury form he is a steal for what you are paying him. If he flames out and its clear he isn't the same player anymore he's an easy guy to cut bait with.

And here's one for the Tito is out of touch people just to chew on. Tito wanted to open the season with Bo as his starting catcher.

Yeah, I don't think you'll find me debating who is making all the roster decisions because it leads to nowhere unless you're standing there with them in the meetings. Overall, they're doing a standup job building a perennial winner and I admit that I would like to see some things happen a little quicker which isn't always a good idea.

 

[Gson]

My gut tells me that Jose has some real pull in regards to Rosario being used the way Tito uses him. That's the only thing that makes any sense to me. And that's why I have a horrible feeling that we might keep Rosario long term.

Please talk me off the ledge...

hmm.... the flight is exhilarating.... but the stop is too sudden.. you might rethink???

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

This shit is funny to me Rosario is not the reason we’re losing games, but the hate is real….If we can’t fix the middle reliever, won’t matter who’s playing SS, or CF we have lost 5/6 games just in the last 3weeks because our fucking reliever can’t hold a lead …..I look at the whole team when I’m judging this team, not just 1 or 2 players I get everyone wants to see the young SS , I do to but I know they will be here next year, I could wait. I think Rocchio is the real deal, but I’m not going to piss off my franchise player to satisfy a few fans when he not the reason we’re losing.

My man, that's literally what you're doing in this very post.

You're seeing one player--a reliever--blow a lead and focusing on him, while ignoring how other players and factors could potentially impact the result. That result still could have been a win with better defense or better hitting.

On the topic of Rosario...

1. We're playing the worst defensive SS in baseball every single day.
2. We're playing a poor hitter in the most critical spot of the lineup every single day
3. We're depriving our young talent of major league reps--both at the plate and in the field, which has downstream consequences:
   1. Their development gets stunted. They are less likely to succeed in the future, and if they do succeed, their ceiling is less likely to be obtained
   2. We lose a year of team control. If one turns out to be a stud, we now have him for one less year than we could have.
   3. There is more uncertainty. We lost a year's worth of evaluation--meaning we're less certain of what our future should be. When it comes to who we can trade away, what areas we need to trade for, what positions guys should train for and play, and what our starting lineups can be moving forward, all of that gets impacted.

You widdling this down to "some fans needing to be satisfied" is either ignorant or disingenuous.

 

[cliffdawg]

My man, that's literally what you're doing in this very post.

You're seeing one player--a reliever--blow a lead and focusing on him, while ignoring how other players and factors could potentially impact the result. That result still could have been a win with better defense or better hitting.

On the topic of Rosario...

1. We're playing the worst defensive SS in baseball every single day.
2. We're playing a poor hitter in the most critical spot of the lineup every single day
3. We're depriving our young talent of major league reps--both at the plate and in the field, which has downstream consequences:
   1. Their development gets stunted. They are less likely to succeed in the future, and if they do succeed, their ceiling is less likely to be obtained
   2. We lose a year of team control. If one turns out to be a stud, we now have him for one less year than we could have.
   3. There is more uncertainty. We lost a year's worth of evaluation--meaning we're less certain of what our future should be. When it comes to who we can trade away, what areas we need to trade for, what positions guys should train for and play, and what our starting lineups can be moving forward, all of that gets impacted.

You widdling this down to "some fans needing to be satisfied" is either ignorant or disingenuous.

I said I’m good, I have my opinion, which goes with the team opinion and you have your………..I don’t doubt your points they are true, but he’s our SS until they makes a decision, and I wish the best for him to succeed, because that helps us wins game….Some people on this board can’t wait for him to look bad so they could come on here and bitch, some even hope he S/O or make a error so it’s fits there narrative, I hope for the opposite and mighty enjoys it when he shines .