2023 Season | Series #31 | Guardians @ Pirates | July 17-19, 2023

[cliffdawg]

You're seeing one player--a reliever--blow a lead and focusing on him, while ignoring how other players and factors could potentially impact the result. That result still could have been a win with better defense or better hitting.

That whole group have look bad, not just one player, and been looking bad for over 3 weeks now as a whole group…….I would say they have caused more losses then Rosario, just mind opinion.

 

[daddywags]

Not a straightforward, single person or part of the organization.

Just remember. Decision makers are dealing with real people and relationships when they make moves. Can't operate in a vacuum like you're on an internet forum.

This should be stickied at the top of these baseball forums and required reading for all!

 

[BimboColesHair]

Love you Cliff.

But Amed has cost this team 17 runs on defense already, on top of adding at least 4.2 extra innings worth of outs onto our pitchers' workloads when compared to a league average SS just on ground balls he can't get to that an average one can. Add in his 11 errors and we are at 8.1 extra innings worth of outs required by our pitchers due to just 1 position player.

We've had to play pretty much an entire extra game already because of Amed's defensive issues. And there are still 2.5 months left in the season.

If he was an above average offensive player he could make up for it a bit, but he isn't. He's 17% less productive than a league average hitter. Contrary to what some here might think, he also is not clutch. Yeah, he gets base hits with runners on and with 2 outs. But that hasn't done much to affect us winning games because of his other issues. He hits .235/.289/.235 in high leverage situations with a near 30% K rate, he alone has dropped the Guardians win probability a cumulative 96% this season while batting, the 3rd worst mark on the team behind Straw and Gallagher. By comparison's sake, only 2 pitchers have dropped our win probability more than Amed. Clase and Quantrill.

When you play on a team that already struggles to score runs you hurt it the hardest when you give up runs to the opposing team, give opposing teams more chances to score, don't get timely hits, and provide overall below average offense yourself. Amed does all 4 of those with the best of them as a full time player.

 

[Lee]

Love you Cliff.

But Amed has cost this team 17 runs on defense already, on top of adding at least 4.2 extra innings worth of outs onto our pitchers' workloads when compared to a league average SS just on ground balls he can't get to that an average one can. Add in his 11 errors and we are at 8.1 extra innings worth of outs required by our pitchers due to just 1 position player.

We've had to play pretty much an entire extra game already because of Amed's defensive issues. And there are still 2.5 months left in the season.

If he was an above average offensive player he could make up for it a bit, but he isn't. He's 17% less productive than a league average hitter. Contrary to what some here might think, he also is not clutch. Yeah, he gets base hits with runners on and with 2 outs. But that hasn't done much to affect us winning games because of his other issues. He hits .235/.289/.235 in high leverage situations with a near 30% K rate, he alone has dropped the Guardians win probability a cumulative 96% this season while batting, the 3rd worst mark on the team behind Straw and Gallagher. By comparison's sake, only 2 pitchers have dropped our win probability more than Amed. Clase and Quantrill.

When you play on a team that already struggles to score runs you hurt it the hardest when you give up runs to the opposing team, give opposing teams more chances to score, don't get timely hits, and provide overall below average offense yourself. Amed does all 4 of those with the best of them as a full time player.

Why do you Amed is still an every day player despite all the evidence he should not be?

 

[CDAV45]

Love you Cliff.

But Amed has cost this team 17 runs on defense already, on top of adding at least 4.2 extra innings worth of outs onto our pitchers' workloads when compared to a league average SS just on ground balls he can't get to that an average one can. Add in his 11 errors and we are at 8.1 extra innings worth of outs required by our pitchers due to just 1 position player.

We've had to play pretty much an entire extra game already because of Amed's defensive issues. And there are still 2.5 months left in the season.

If he was an above average offensive player he could make up for it a bit, but he isn't. He's 17% less productive than a league average hitter. Contrary to what some here might think, he also is not clutch. Yeah, he gets base hits with runners on and with 2 outs. But that hasn't done much to affect us winning games because of his other issues. He hits .235/.289/.235 in high leverage situations with a near 30% K rate, he alone has dropped the Guardians win probability a cumulative 96% this season while batting, the 3rd worst mark on the team behind Straw and Gallagher. By comparison's sake, only 2 pitchers have dropped our win probability more than Amed. Clase and Quantrill.

When you play on a team that already struggles to score runs you hurt it the hardest when you give up runs to the opposing team, give opposing teams more chances to score, don't get timely hits, and provide overall below average offense yourself. Amed does all 4 of those with the best of them as a full time player.

Oh snap! As my favorite comedian would say.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

But Amed has cost this team 17 runs on defense already, on top of adding at least 4.2 extra innings worth of outs onto our pitchers' workloads when compared to a league average SS just on ground balls he can't get to that an average one can. Add in his 11 errors and we are at 8.1 extra innings worth of outs required by our pitchers due to just 1 position player.

...he alone has dropped the Guardians win probability a cumulative 96% this season while batting, the 3rd worst mark on the team behind Straw and Gallagher.

Well, now we know who needs to be replaced next year.

Amed, Straw, and Gallagher. But I think that was already obvious.

And they need to get Clase, Stephan, Hentges, and Karinchak back to where they were last year while keeping DLS, Sandlin, and Eli where they are now.

The thing is - it seems clear that Freeman is ready for an every day role. If Amed is actually DECREASING our chance of winning, what's the reason for playing him every day?

 

[cliffdawg]

Love you Cliff.

But Amed has cost this team 17 runs on defense already, on top of adding at least 4.2 extra innings worth of outs onto our pitchers' workloads when compared to a league average SS just on ground balls he can't get to that an average one can. Add in his 11 errors and we are at 8.1 extra innings worth of outs required by our pitchers due to just 1 position player.

We've had to play pretty much an entire extra game already because of Amed's defensive issues. And there are still 2.5 months left in the season.

If he was an above average offensive player he could make up for it a bit, but he isn't. He's 17% less productive than a league average hitter. Contrary to what some here might think, he also is not clutch. Yeah, he gets base hits with runners on and with 2 outs. But that hasn't done much to affect us winning games because of his other issues. He hits .235/.289/.235 in high leverage situations with a near 30% K rate, he alone has dropped the Guardians win probability a cumulative 96% this season while batting, the 3rd worst mark on the team behind Straw and Gallagher. By comparison's sake, only 2 pitchers have dropped our win probability more than Amed. Clase and Quantrill.

When you play on a team that already struggles to score runs you hurt it the hardest when you give up runs to the opposing team, give opposing teams more chances to score, don't get timely hits, and provide overall below average offense yourself. Amed does all 4 of those with the best of them as a full time player.

My weakness is following stats beyond the obvious main one’s , you explaining to me and that matter is eye opening …….. I knew his defense was bad but WOW, I guess I’m as confused on why management continues to put our team and a bad situation.

 

[KluberSociety]

Amed wouldn't annoy me nearly as much if he wasn't in the 2 hole every day, but it is just this nagging mismanagement that says "we could do better but we're choosing not to", and it's even WAY worse for what he's doing to the points that someone like @Out of the Rafters at the Q brought up about service time and development, etc. I know where he hits in the order isn't even THAT big of a deal, it just is like a pet peeve nagging at me.

I'm one of the most fine with Straw in the lineup here, but Straw and Gallagher back-to-back is just gross. You don't want to be hiding 2 hitters in the bottom of a lineup to have to pinch-hit for late in games or killing any rally early in games. Bo being in the lineup fixes the Straw problem quite a bit IMO. Especially if you have more of a DH quality OF on the bench like an OGonz, you can make an easy swap and call it a day. But once you pinch hit Straw you can't pinch hit for Gallagher so it effs everything up. And there's way too much reluctance to pinch hit for Straw as it stands now.

I'm fine with Gallagher on the roster too FWIW (I think DFAing him would be worse) but he just needs to stop playing in so many games. Hopefully Lavastida can end the Gallagher era though. I don't think Fry will.

 

[CDAV45]

Amed wouldn't annoy me nearly as much if he wasn't in the 2 hole every day, but it is just this nagging mismanagement that says "we could do better but we're choosing not to", and it's even WAY worse for what he's doing to the points that someone like @Out of the Rafters at the Q brought up about service time and development, etc. I know where he hits in the order isn't even THAT big of a deal, it just is like a pet peeve nagging at me.

I'm one of the most fine with Straw in the lineup here, but Straw and Gallagher back-to-back is just gross. You don't want to be hiding 2 hitters in the bottom of a lineup to have to pinch-hit for late in games or killing any rally early in games. Bo being in the lineup fixes the Straw problem quite a bit IMO. Especially if you have more of a DH quality OF on the bench like an OGonz, you can make an easy swap and call it a day. But once you pinch hit Straw you can't pinch hit for Gallagher so it effs everything up. And there's way too much reluctance to pinch hit for Straw as it stands now.

Straw would be more tolerable for me if this lineup was more robust. I also don't see why we would deliberately have an extremely weak hitter in the lineup when we don't need to. I do understand that he is very good defensively, but his defensive prowess isn't saving us games that a good, routine play making CFer like Brennan wouldn't also save. If Straw was the 4th OFer/late inning defensive replacement/pinch runner then you wouldn't hear me complain at all. I think it's coming to that in short order just like Rosario finding a new home and Gallagher accepting an assignment in Columbus.

 

[Real Deal]

Oh snap! As my favorite comedian would say.

I wish my favorite comedian could slap Tito after reading stuff like above

 

[KluberSociety]

Straw would be more tolerable for me if this lineup was more robust. I also don't see why we would deliberately have an extremely weak hitter in the lineup when we don't need to. I do understand that he is very good defensively, but his defensive prowess isn't saving us games that a good, routine play making CFer like Brennan wouldn't also save. If Straw was the 4th OFer/late inning defensive replacement/pinch runner then you wouldn't hear me complain at all. I think it's coming to that in short order just like Rosario finding a new home and Gallagher accepting an assignment in Columbus.

Having Straw in CF makes 2 OF positions significantly better and you can limit his offensive damage pretty well by tucking him in the 9 hole.

But let's say OGonz gets called up. Then we have so much more room to work with. You start Straw some games vs RHP, and OGonz pinch hits. You start OGonz some games vs RHP and Straw pinch fields. You start OGonz AND Straw most games vs. lefties, and Brennan or even Kwan pinch-hit / pinch-field.

Starting lineup:
vs RHP: Kwan 100%, Brennan 100%, Straw 50%, OGonz 50%
vs LHP: Kwan 80%, Brennan 20%, Straw 100%, OGonz 100%

If we play 1/3 lefties then we have:
Kwan 93%, Brennan 73%, Straw 67%, OGonz 67%

This kind of ratio wouldn't have anyone glued to the bench and it would allow late-game adaptability to our needs.

 

[Real Deal]

Well, now we know who needs to be replaced next year.

Amed, Straw, and Gallagher. But I think that was already obvious.

And they need to get Clase, Stephan, Hentges, and Karinchak back to where they were last year while keeping DLS, Sandlin, and Eli where they are now.

The thing is - it seems clear that Freeman is ready for an every day role. If Amed is actually DECREASING our chance of winning, what's the reason for playing him every day?

For as long as I watched Cleveland baseball, and baseball in general, bullpens are always a year to year basis -- good or bad, great or horrid. After the 90's when we stopped outslugging everyone, our good bullpen years dictated whether we were contenders or not.

If the bullpen copy and pastes last season to this season, we are in first place by at least 5-6 games. Even with our horrible offensive start. That's how bad they've been when called upon. At least in high leverage situations.

So yeah, I'll bet the house next year on the bullpen returning to a better form, on top of adding someone else.

Coming into this season my main concerns and regression concerns wasn't Kwan, Ogon, Andres, etc. It was straight bullpen and Clase. We can live with Kwan and Andres figuring things out game to game. We'll sink with Stephan, JK, Clase, Hentges taking turns flopping. Amed at SS is a problem too. He could be masked with perfection like what 2022 brought.

 

[mopete12]

Love you Cliff.

But Amed has cost this team 17 runs on defense already, on top of adding at least 4.2 extra innings worth of outs onto our pitchers' workloads when compared to a league average SS just on ground balls he can't get to that an average one can. Add in his 11 errors and we are at 8.1 extra innings worth of outs required by our pitchers due to just 1 position player.

We've had to play pretty much an entire extra game already because of Amed's defensive issues. And there are still 2.5 months left in the season.

If he was an above average offensive player he could make up for it a bit, but he isn't. He's 17% less productive than a league average hitter. Contrary to what some here might think, he also is not clutch. Yeah, he gets base hits with runners on and with 2 outs. But that hasn't done much to affect us winning games because of his other issues. He hits .235/.289/.235 in high leverage situations with a near 30% K rate, he alone has dropped the Guardians win probability a cumulative 96% this season while batting, the 3rd worst mark on the team behind Straw and Gallagher. By comparison's sake, only 2 pitchers have dropped our win probability more than Amed. Clase and Quantrill.

When you play on a team that already struggles to score runs you hurt it the hardest when you give up runs to the opposing team, give opposing teams more chances to score, don't get timely hits, and provide overall below average offense yourself. Amed does all 4 of those with the best of them as a full time player.

Oh man, how are you gonna do CATS like that!

 

[CDAV45]

I wish my favorite comedian could slap Tito after reading stuff like above

View attachment 16448

I miss Charlie Murphy

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Love you Cliff.

But Amed has cost this team 17 runs on defense already, on top of adding at least 4.2 extra innings worth of outs onto our pitchers' workloads when compared to a league average SS just on ground balls he can't get to that an average one can. Add in his 11 errors and we are at 8.1 extra innings worth of outs required by our pitchers due to just 1 position player.

We've had to play pretty much an entire extra game already because of Amed's defensive issues. And there are still 2.5 months left in the season.

If he was an above average offensive player he could make up for it a bit, but he isn't. He's 17% less productive than a league average hitter. Contrary to what some here might think, he also is not clutch. Yeah, he gets base hits with runners on and with 2 outs. But that hasn't done much to affect us winning games because of his other issues. He hits .235/.289/.235 in high leverage situations with a near 30% K rate, he alone has dropped the Guardians win probability a cumulative 96% this season while batting, the 3rd worst mark on the team behind Straw and Gallagher. By comparison's sake, only 2 pitchers have dropped our win probability more than Amed. Clase and Quantrill.

When you play on a team that already struggles to score runs you hurt it the hardest when you give up runs to the opposing team, give opposing teams more chances to score, don't get timely hits, and provide overall below average offense yourself. Amed does all 4 of those with the best of them as a full time player.

Gutsy post, Bimbo. But WTH are they going to do about it? Yeah, we know Amed and JRam are boys. But please tell us there's a plan, and we will have a new regular SS after the deadline.