2024 Guardians Regular Season Thread

[MD13]

OK, setting the Civale debate aside momentarily and getting back to 2024, I've noticed a huge difference between Tito and Vogt. Tito was extremely loyal to his veterans. No matter how bad they were slumping he kept them in their roles. His main priority was to show he believed in them, counting on that faith to help them work their way out of it.

Vogt is moving pieces all over the place. For example, Gimenez has batted 1st, 2nd, 6th and 7th. Jose is bouncing back-and-forth between hitting 2nd and 3rd. Arias has started at 3B, SS, and CF while also playing 1B and RF. Fry has started at C, 1B, and LF. Bo Naylor has hit in five different spots in the batting order.

Gaddis has gone from the last guy in the bullpen to pitching the 8th inning today in three weeks. Smith is getting higher leverage assignments. Vogt said Clase is the closer but nobody else has a role; they need to be ready to pitch in any inning depending on who is coming up to bat. Nobody is designated to be a middle reliever or a set-up man. It's all about getting the best matchups regardless of the inning.

Tito believed in everybody having a defined role or a stable spot in the batting order so they could get comfortable. Vogt is a chess master - he moves guys all over the place. He said the batting order is set up to beat that day's starting pitcher, as opposed to each player having a permanent spot that does not vary from day to day.

I love Vogt's approach. He brings in the right relief pitcher for the situation, not the inning. He tweaks the batting order every game based on the strengths and weaknesses of the opposing pitcher. It's working and I love it.

As good as Tito was, Vogt has shown why things can sometimes get a bit stale and there’s a lot to be gained from having a fresh perspective and voice in the room. The biggest move of them all imo (not just on Vogt, maybe the org would have still done the same if Tito was still here) was moving Freeman full time to CF and having the commitment to start him after ST. It’s been a long time since we’ve had the type of contact ability and potential power that he brings to the team from the CF spot.

Love the way he’s also rewarding guys like Arias and Florial with more at-bats when they’ve shown that they deserve it.

 

[KluberSociety]

Manzardo down to .713 OPS in AAA. I am making no comment on his long term potential or whether the Civale trade was worth it (I basically feel like it's a wash and he shows enough long term promise) but I don't understand why you'd think that rushing him up NOW makes sense or helps the organization out. Let him earn his way up.

 

[Tondo]

Manzardo down to .713 OPS in AAA. I am making no comment on his long term potential or whether the Civale trade was worth it (I basically feel like it's a wash and he shows enough long term promise) but I don't understand why you'd think that rushing him up NOW makes sense or helps the organization out. Let him earn his way up.

I've just Re watched those ABs (and from Brito and JRod).

The Manzardo ABs were pretty bad. He does have a good sense of the zone, but just doesn't punish pitches in the zone. His swing looks stiff to me and I'm getting real AAAA angst with him. Maybe he's nursing a small injury or something, but I just don't see an impact bat there.

Brito has an even better understanding of the strike zone and accepts taking walks, almost to a fault. He's not passive, he swings when it's middle in especially, but as Manzardo, the impact is extremely poor with a lot of weak contact and Pop ups.

JRod is a bit different. Solid zone awareness, chases a bit more, but looking to crush the ball. Too many groundballs though. He's like a bad mix of Florial (zone awareness) and Arias (groundball heavy high EV). Not sure this will play up in MLB.

It's a shame Valera and even more so Martinez are injured. Angel is probably a season ending one in terms of development, as he'll need time, because hamate bone. Real bummer there.

I don't see anyone in Columbus that would help us right now. The depth is solid all around. Lava is doing ok and in case of injury, we'll have a capable bat for every need. But just keep those 13 guys up in MLB as long as they're healthy. They're winning, let them have their runway. Nobody is knocking down doors.

 

[Tondo]

OK, setting the Civale debate aside momentarily and getting back to 2024, I've noticed a huge difference between Tito and Vogt. Tito was extremely loyal to his veterans. No matter how bad they were slumping he kept them in their roles. His main priority was to show he believed in them, counting on that faith to help them work their way out of it.

Vogt is moving pieces all over the place. For example, Gimenez has batted 1st, 2nd, 6th and 7th. Jose is bouncing back-and-forth between hitting 2nd and 3rd. Arias has started at 3B, SS, and CF while also playing 1B and RF. Fry has started at C, 1B, and LF. Bo Naylor has hit in five different spots in the batting order.

Gaddis has gone from the last guy in the bullpen to pitching the 8th inning today in three weeks. Smith is getting higher leverage assignments. Vogt said Clase is the closer but nobody else has a role; they need to be ready to pitch in any inning depending on who is coming up to bat. Nobody is designated to be a middle reliever or a set-up man. It's all about getting the best matchups regardless of the inning.

Tito believed in everybody having a defined role or a stable spot in the batting order so they could get comfortable. Vogt is a chess master - he moves guys all over the place. He said the batting order is set up to beat that day's starting pitcher, as opposed to each player having a permanent spot that does not vary from day to day.

I love Vogt's approach. He brings in the right relief pitcher for the situation, not the inning. He tweaks the batting order every game based on the strengths and weaknesses of the opposing pitcher. It's working and I love it.

Fully agree.

Tito's role style was so outdated and really hurt in the W-L column.

Vogt and the new coaches around him clearly do it the Rays way, extending their pitching staff down to AAA by refilling fresh arms as needed. The FO provided the depth for this style and I really like it.

The SP depth chart took some tough blows and will be tested all season, so having basically two bullpens capable (veteran depth plus in house prospects) of pitching in MLB is extremely valuable and much needed to cover innings. The roster juggling will be the toughest task, but so far they're doing a great job with it.

 

[CDAV45]

Fully agree.

Tito's role style was so outdated and really hurt in the W-L column.

Vogt and the new coaches around him clearly do it the Rays way, extending their pitching staff down to AAA by refilling fresh arms as needed. The FO provided the depth for this style and I really like it.

The SP depth chart took some tough blows and will be tested all season, so having basically two bullpens capable (veteran depth plus in house prospects) of pitching in MLB is extremely valuable and much needed to cover innings. The roster juggling will be the toughest task, but so far they're doing a great job with it.

I like Vogt's style better as well. It will be interesting to see how/if things change as the roster settles and guys lock up roster spots. Be interesting to see if there is any difference in how aggressively they promote guys too.

 

[CDAV45]

As of today this team is ranked 12th in SLG which is up from 29th in 23. Should only continue to get better too.

 

[rcristal]

The FO has done a pretty amazing job of adding ML ready pitching depth to the org for basically free.

Amen! That's almost all I have been thinking about.
I am most certainly no fan of Paul Dolan. He has very talented people working with an are tied. It is amazing how this organization stays so competitive. It is certainly no thanks to the owner.
Rcristal

 

[Alabuckeye]

The FO has done a pretty amazing job of adding ML ready pitching depth to the org for basically free.

Amen! That's almost all I have been thinking about.
I am most certainly no fan of Paul Dolan. He has very talented people working with an are tied. It is amazing how this organization stays so competitive. It is certainly no thanks to the owner.
Rcristal

Question about this.
if this were truly the case, why are people so loyal to the organization? Why is the FO long term employees, rising up through the org? That is counter intuitive to me.

 

[CDAV45]

I'm a fan of Dolan and I'll be glad to tell you why. He's a hands off owner. He's empowered Antonetti to run the organization as he sees fit within a certain budget. When the time is right that budget is elevated to improve the team, but the foundation has to come from within and it does. I prefer that to a "just go out and buy whatever you need" ran organization.

If you want to praise this FO that's good IMO because they deserve it, but that praise should extend to the Dolan's for hiring capable people and leaving them to do their job.

 

[Alabuckeye]

I'm a fan of Dolan and I'll be glad to tell you why. He's a hands off owner. He's empowered Antonetti to run the organization as he sees fit within a certain budget. When the time is right that budget is elevated to improve the team, but the foundation has to come from within and it does. I prefer that to a "just go out and buy whatever you need" ran organization.

If you want to praise this FO that's good IMO because they deserve it, but that praise should extend to the Dolan's for hiring capable people and leaving them to do their job.

I agree with this….but I was driving at the mantra that has at its core that Dolan is cheap and holds back the FO and organization as a whole because of it.

I don’t see the talented guys running the FO staying as they have if that truly were the environment. I’m pretty sure that they could find opportunities out there quickly

 

[CDAV45]

I agree with this….but I was driving at the mantra that has at its core that Dolan is cheap and holds back the FO and organization as a whole because of it.

I don’t see the talented guys running the FO staying as they have if that truly were the environment. I’m pretty sure that they could find opportunities out there quickly

But they do stay and the only time they leave is when a better opportunity presents itself and it seems as if every team is trying to hire from Cleveland's ranks.

 

[BMAN]

What’s the point of even bringing up Dolan in that post?

 

[jmilo]

What’s the point of even bringing up Dolan in that post?

They've lived their entire lives inundated with "Dolan is Cheap!" propaganda. There is no way to combat this. The damage is done.

 

[avs2000]

I think you’re always looking for FOR guys… not solid pitchers. I liked Civale but if you’re offered an impact bat prospect for a MOR guy in an organization that can develop pitching, you gotta do it.

The best case study on MOR guys not being FOR guys is Cal Quantrill.

Triston is just an unfortunate situation for all involved. But injuries and promotions have magnified our lack of depth. But I don’t regret the Civale trade whatsoever.

Civale is not durable. Period. Manzardo is a very good prospect, near major league ready. Slumping now though
I look at Manzardo as Naylor's replacement, maybe as soon as next year if he has a solid season. Naylor could be moved after this season if Manzardo rights his ship

 

[KluberSociety]

They've lived their entire lives inundated with "Dolan is Cheap!" propaganda. There is no way to combat this. The damage is done.

The Matt Dolan campaign funds would definitely have been able to combat this to some degree.

I don't really expect business owners to treat their sports teams as charities though. I think the few that do are exceptions to the rule.