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2024 Season | Series #6 | Guardians @ Red Sox | April 15-18, 2024

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CATS44 said:
Today fangraphs projects this...

Cleveland 81-81
Minnesota 81-81
Kansas City 81-81
Detroit 80-82
Click to expand...
Well, we are 9-3 against Oakland, Seattle, Minnesota, and Chicago - all under .500. We're 1-2 against the Yankees and 2-0 against the Red Sox, who were 9-7 coming in. So we're 3-2 against winning teams on the road.

I assume they're looking at the loss of Bieber and playing 12 of 17 games against losing teams as reasons why they don't have us over .500.
 
sportscoach said:
I get what you are saying, but I said "Clase isn't going anywhere, I think it would mentally sink this team" He took part of my context rather than the whole thing...

This team is rolling and he has been trying to trade Kwan and Clase for max value while cutting Hedges/trading him for anything... I get the point of doing that on paper, but on paper, means little to nothing since it never includes the mental/chemistry side of the game.

It makes no sense to listen to any offers on any of the main nucleus of guys whatsoever...

We brought in Hedges to be a captain/glue to this team. We had Bethancourt, who career wise is a way better hitter and still a plus defender, and on paper, is the guy to keep between the two. Yet we went and spent 3 million more for Hedges... This FO isn't going to do that unless they 100% felt they needed him...

Kwan is a main cog of this team, we lose a lot of games without him at the top of the lineup. I get we lack some power in the OF, and traditional LF is a power spot, but he's an All-Star in his position in 24...

Clase I feel like is fine as a closer, but IF we move him, the return better be amazing plus with Stephan out, who is our closer? Aleman, Walters etc are still in the minors... Gaddis is learning a new role (and doing extremely well) but it's still a new role. Smith and Herrin have some stuff, but haven't always been known for command, so maybe not a closer in a sense...

We cannot afford to trade Clase IF we are contending because it would send the wrong message to the team. IF anything we are going to go add a veteran SP like a Blackblurn or OF like Taylor Ward. Antonetti is going to shuffle (Aka Beede, Aviles etc) the end of the bench to see IF we can get better that way until the trade deadline and IF we are in contention, then go upgrade and not in contention, he will listen to Clase offers, but while we are in contention, we aren't gonna be moving or even listening to Clase offers right now in a sense..
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Only correction I will give is we will always listen to offers. We called about Ohtani with almost zero chance. If someone blows away for Clase we will take it, but I doubt we are actively shopping him.
 
Looks like the Sox are giving Tyler O'Neill another day off but expect him to play in the finale Thursday afternoon. Devers is listed as "probable" for tonight.
 
CDAV45 said:
How does anyone "not like Kwan"? I've stated numerous times that it's the accumulative effect. If you want Kwan in LF that's fine because he's one of the best lead off men in MLB, but your CF and your RF better be able to mash.

Listen, I've done the research. I went back 25+ yrs and the only team to win a WS that wasn't in the top 6 in power was the Cardinals I believe and they were still top 10. Look at the offense now. You're getting power in spots that had very little the last few seasons and the difference is exponential. Even better news is that there is more coming.
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Kwan is one of the reasons I am rooting for Arias to take short because if he EARNS the spot, not given the spot, its because of his power and its another spot we have power.

RF needs Chase sooner than later, as all 3 spots in the outfield have power issues. I am not sure what the solution in CF is at all, do we have it in our minors? Manzardo when called up should bring some power to the DH or 1B with Naylor.

What do we do with Frye? He seems to bat, not sure why he isnt given more time at RF, is he just not good defensively? Can Kwan play CF if we get a LF with power? All more questions than answers at this point.
 
Tondo said:
Shouldn't count as a blown SV with ghost runner scoring?
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It’s an unearned run, so it doesn’t impact his ERA, but he came into a game with the lead and left the game without the lead so it’s still a blown save in the official scorebook.
 
CATS44 said:
I dont feel that the org focused overly much on contact. They focused on finding kids with a solid hitting foundation...understanding that power comes later.

Then they tried to fill holes with guys that supposedly had power, but no foundation. They compounded a short term problem by waiting too long to make decisions on their prospects, thereby losing trade value.

The one youngster they acquired with power AND a solid contact foundation was Josh Naylor, and that worked out well. To be fair, they learned their lesson, and have acquired two kids with both in Delauter and Manzardo. (Manzardo keeps piling up homers and doubles, defying all claims that he doesn't have power.)

What our history should have taught us is that if we want power, it should come with a foundation of contact. Those that do, produce.

Thome
Belle
Manny Being Manny
Grady
Pronk
VMart
Santana
Nails

Those that don't, don't.

Bradley
Zimmer
SpongeBob
Franmil
Karim Garcia
Shane Spencer
A whole host of former Tribe draft picks/top prospects with supposed power

Some big MiLB terrors with big home run numbers show up and for a month, or half season, or even an entire season pound unsuspecting MLB pitching, but then crash and burn.

Remember Aristedes Aquino?

Now look at these lists. Who on those lists most resemble Delauter and Manzardo?

Who on those lists most resemble Valera, Noel, Planez, Rodriguez?

**********

On a completely different topic, and just for fun, I like to look at some of the daily projections from BR, PECOTA, and fangraphs. Just for fun, because they have very little value.

Today fangraphs projects this...

Cleveland 81-81
Minnesota 81-81
Kansas City 81-81
Detroit 80-82
Click to expand...
No real response to this other than listing Shane Spencer made me lol. He was only on Cleveland for 64 games at 31 years old. I'm guessing you meant someone else? Branyan?

Also, Spongebob had a "foundation of contact", but swung at everything.
 
CATS44 said:
I dont feel that the org focused overly much on contact. They focused on finding kids with a solid hitting foundation...understanding that power comes later.

Then they tried to fill holes with guys that supposedly had power, but no foundation. They compounded a short term problem by waiting too long to make decisions on their prospects, thereby losing trade value.

The one youngster they acquired with power AND a solid contact foundation was Josh Naylor, and that worked out well. To be fair, they learned their lesson, and have acquired two kids with both in Delauter and Manzardo. (Manzardo keeps piling up homers and doubles, defying all claims that he doesn't have power.)

What our history should have taught us is that if we want power, it should come with a foundation of contact. Those that do, produce.

Thome
Belle
Manny Being Manny
Grady
Pronk
VMart
Santana
Nails

Those that don't, don't.

Bradley
Zimmer
SpongeBob
Franmil
Karim Garcia
Shane Spencer
A whole host of former Tribe draft picks/top prospects with supposed power

Some big MiLB terrors with big home run numbers show up and for a month, or half season, or even an entire season pound unsuspecting MLB pitching, but then crash and burn.

Remember Aristedes Aquino?

Now look at these lists. Who on those lists most resemble Delauter and Manzardo?

Who on those lists most resemble Valera, Noel, Planez, Rodriguez?

**********

On a completely different topic, and just for fun, I like to look at some of the daily projections from BR, PECOTA, and fangraphs. Just for fun, because they have very little value.

Today fangraphs projects this...

Cleveland 81-81
Minnesota 81-81
Kansas City 81-81
Detroit 80-82
Click to expand...
I think it is more having an effective foundation than specifically a contact oriented one. Thome as you mentioned was a great hitter, but he swung and missed a ton and led the league in K's. What mattered though was that his selective approach led him to hunt mistakes and crush them, he was also a "upper cut" guy which is what launch angle swings were called before launch angle became fashionable.

SpongeBob had power, and contact, but no foundations to use those skills due to his bad approach.
 
sportscoach said:
Problem is Cleveland focused on pure contact for maybe too long... Now they have been trying to add power to the mix (Aka Reyes, OGonz extra) but so far its not working.

I sincerely think Kwan isn't available and until the trade deadline they are gonna give the current group of young players the run way.

IF we are still playing this well I think they will try to add a Castellanos in a sense... I think it will be more of a Jay Bruce type of add than Miller though, in the sense of style of trade, but I can see them putting a lot into someone IF they have team control...
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I would agree that Kwan isn't available and I haven't said Kwan is available. All I've said is that if I were in Antonettie/Chernoff's shoes he would be for the right return. In fact, I would be open to moving any of Kwan, Clase, Rocchio and McKenzie, but it would have to be for a haul.

Here's the thing. Everyone here knows that the 2 most costly items in MLB are SP and power. They need to draft and/or trade for both of those things and fill in the gaps with guys like Kwan, Brennan and Freeman. Having to do the reverse appears to be more difficult.

I don't know if I'm in favor of adding a Castellanos until our young, ready prospects have proven they cannot perform at the highest level.
 
Lee said:
Kwan is one of the reasons I am rooting for Arias to take short because if he EARNS the spot, not given the spot, its because of his power and its another spot we have power.

RF needs Chase sooner than later, as all 3 spots in the outfield have power issues. I am not sure what the solution in CF is at all, do we have it in our minors? Manzardo when called up should bring some power to the DH or 1B with Naylor.

What do we do with Frye? He seems to bat, not sure why he isnt given more time at RF, is he just not good defensively? Can Kwan play CF if we get a LF with power? All more questions than answers at this point.
Click to expand...
Arias is just so damn strong and he's the best defensive SS we have outside of our 2B maybe. Rocchio is a solid player and I'd put him and Freeman in the same category which isn't too damn shabby if we're being honest.

Infusing Manzardo, DeLauter and Brito into this lineup could bring a serious boost in the power department, but I don't know how the pieces fit together. Go ahead and put Rodriguez in with those 3 too. He's going to force his way in I'm afraid.

IMO Fry needs to be the 2nd catcher and Hedges needs to go. These kids need reps to develop
 
CDAV45 said:
Arias is just so damn strong and he's the best defensive SS we have outside of our 2B maybe. Rocchio is a solid player and I'd put him and Freeman in the same category which isn't too damn shabby if we're being honest.

Infusing Manzardo, DeLauter and Brito into this lineup could bring a serious boost in the power department, but I don't know how the pieces fit together. Go ahead and put Rodriguez in with those 3 too. He's going to force his way in I'm afraid.

IMO Fry needs to be the 2nd catcher and Hedges needs to go. These kids need reps to develop
Click to expand...

I think there is something about Hedges we dont get because we brought him back with our 1st base coach and head coach both all star catchers. I think Hedges is more than just club house.

But maybe after this year, Frye can move into backup catcher role
 
Lee said:
I think there is something about Hedges we dont get because we brought him back with our 1st base coach and head coach both all star catchers. I think Hedges is more than just club house.

But maybe after this year, Frye can move into backup catcher role
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That's reasonable and I'll be the first to admit that I'm focused on 2025 being the beginning of this team's run. Any winnings this season is icing on the cake for me. If you look at it through that lens then you can see why I'd remove Hedges.
 
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