2024 Season | Series #9 | Guardians @ Braves | April 26-28, 2024

[Otsego Mar]

All we really need to know is........

Spoiler

....who has the better smelling jock?

 

[CATS44]

I mean, I think my point was a pretty easy one to follow.

Through his first 172 MLB PAs Rocchio has a .581 OPS, a .083 ISO, has been worth -0.5 fWAR while playing 90% of his defensive innings at a position with built in positive WAR value, has posted a -6 OAA, has a cumulative -1 baserunning value score, and a cumulative -2.8 DRtg.

Through his first 171 MLB PAs Arias had a .685 OPS, a .156 ISO, was worth 0.3 fWAR playing 90% of his defensive innings at 3B, 1B, and RF (1B and RF have negative defensive value built in for WAR), had posted a -1 OAA, had a cumulative 0.4 baserunning value score, and a cumulative -1.9 DRtg.

I know for a fact I can go back to June of last year (and even before then) and find posts from Cats or Tondo or anyone else in favor of Rocchio saying Arias wasn't doing enough and was being given too long of a leash and he sucks and they just don't ever see how he is going to develop into a good MLB player.

This isn't even about Rocchio vs Arias. It's just funny how now it's time for patience with guys when we are playing favorites instead of being impartial.

Its not being partial or being impatient.

It's about track records and trends.

Arias has a two year, 1000 PA track record of basically non performance, with a few 50 PA sprees of hot hitting sprinkled in. 1000 PAs is hardly a small sample size.

And whenever he is in one of his hot streaks, often powered by unsustainable underlying factors, we hear from some so called experts.

Now we here about Rocchios first 170 PAs compared to Arias first 170.

Rocchio has to play better, but its not like the bar is set very high. Arias' wRC+ stands at 79 in 462 PAs. One short hot streak would eclipse that quickly.

I just laugh at the bashing. I've heard it many times before. I heard it during Gimenez first year here, when I said that he was by far the best MIF player/prospect in the org and better than any prospect we had at any position. I heard it when I immediately said that Brantley would become an impact player.
I heard it when I said that Naquins rookie year was a fluke and we should trade him at his highest value.

Just give it all some time, and we shall see.

 

[BimboColesHair]

When Rocchio comes up to the plate with a man at 1st, I’m mentally preparing myself for a GIDP. He’s only hit into 3, (tied for team lead) but the number of soft grounders he hits make me feel like it’s just a case of whether it finds a hole or not.

Hopefully he picks it up soon, right now he just looks completely overwhelmed at the plate.

The common excuse for him last year for his poor production at the plate and in the field was that he was moving around to other positions, wasn’t playing consistently, and didn’t have a consistent role.

He’s now played 1 position this year, has been the (modern day version) everyday guy at SS, and in the same number of PAs as he had last year is somehow producing worse numbers this year. And has still been poor defensively in between flashes of brilliance.

Hard not to be concerned. Only thing that alleviates it somewhat is it’s still too early, but I’m begging for some signs that a next step is coming. Bumps in his hit data from worst in the league to one of the worst in the league isn’t enough. It should not be enough for you to feel comfortable with where he is going. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills that that is being treated as a plus here right now.

The only thing I feel good about right now are his K, BB and contact metrics. Everything else isn’t good though. A big ask to get improvements across the board in all of the areas we are lacking in right now.

I don’t want to say I told you so. I hate having to say it. I’d much rather eat the L and admit I was wrong on players. Like I had to do for a brief time with Oscar, but in the end had to have the same told you so conversation.

But the same concerns I had with Rocchio translating to the MLB and being a productive player who lives up to his top prospect status are still being seen today nearly 200 PAs into his career. If we don’t start seeing a shift in the next month and a half to 2 months and the next 200ish PAs we’re going to have to start having the conversation on how long of a runway do you give him. And with where we are currently at and started from, the shift needs to be somewhat dramatic.

 

[daddywags]

Its not being partial or being impatient.

It's about track records and trends.

Arias has a two year, 1000 PA track record of basically non performance, with a few 50 PA sprees of hot hitting sprinkled in. 1000 PAs is hardly a small sample size.

And whenever he is in one of his hot streaks, often powered by unsustainable underlying factors, we hear from some so called experts.

Now we here about Rocchios first 170 PAs compared to Arias first 170.

Rocchio has to play better, but its not like the bar is set very high. Arias' wRC+ stands at 79 in 462 PAs. One short hot streak would eclipse that quickly.

I just laugh at the bashing. I've heard it many times before. I heard it during Gimenez first year here, when I said that he was by far the best MIF player/prospect in the org and better than any prospect we had at any position. I heard it when I immediately said that Brantley would become an impact player.
I heard it when I said that Naquins rookie year was a fluke and we should trade him at his highest value.

Just give it all some time, and we shall see.

According to bref Arias has 462 big league plate appearances.

 

[BimboColesHair]

According to bref Arias has 462 big league plate appearances.

It’s what he has to do to ignore Arias’ age 21 season in AAA since it doesn’t mesh with his argument.

And if you mention how he broke his hand in the middle of 2022, where half of his last 1000 PAs come from, something that saps players production for months even after returning, he won’t care. He’ll call it an excuse. Just don’t bother.

 

[thestatman]

In 70 years of watching Tribe baseball the best player I've ever seen in Cleveland was Robbie Alomar.

Thru his age 30 season he put up 43.7 fWAR. Jose has put up 45.2 fWAR thru age 30.

But Jose has done it in 270 fewer games and 1500 fewer PAs.

Robbie's best season in that time span was 6.1 fWAR. Jose has had seasons of 6.1, 6.4, 7.0 and 7.6.

Robbie's best three year stretch was in Cleveland at age 31-33. He put up 18.9 fWAR in his three years here.

Enjoy what you are watching, because you may never see it again.

Well said. I've said it a few times, the most exciting all around player I've ever seen here in Cleveland. Last night, Jose executes a perfect head first hook slide enabling Kwan to score. Without that the team loses. I never saw Belle, Thome or Manny make a play like that.

 

[bob2the2nd]

God fucking damn it all of you. Take it to another thread. This is the guardians V Braves thread

 

[thestatman]

The bottom line...all of these top level middle infield prospects have sucked so far. We haven't had a shortstop who could hit since............drum rolllllll.......Amed Rosario.

 

[Otsego Mar]

The bottom line...all of these top level middle infield prospects have sucked so far. We haven't had a shortstop who could hit since............drum rolllllll.......Amed Rosario.

And he's STILL hitting!

We're talkin' basebbaaalllllll we're talkin' triiiiibe!

 

[BimboColesHair]

God fucking damn it all of you. Take it to another thread. This is the guardians V Braves thread

I think the penile surgery is affecting my reading comprehension. I thought this was the "My Guy Rulez, Your Guy Suckz" thread.

My bad.

 

[CATS44]

An 8 pitch at bat from Gimenez is a good sign.

 

[Pierre Pan]

José gets on via a HBP

 

[Otsego Mar]

Kwan and Gimmy down, Jram takes one off the shin guard. Naylor up....and Naylor down.

 

[Pierre Pan]

At least, Elder had to throw 21 pitches

 

[Meatwad]

"He's heating up!"