22 GM Thread!!!

[Gson]

@CDAV45 @Gson

You two like to talk trades, so another idea... (this one would be even more interesting if we could pull off that Herrera trade personally)

How can we get Murphy?...

He is listed at 65 for value, so we need to make a move to get near that, but I think that's a bit high personally, since I am not that high on his bat...

Murphy plus Andrus, for Freeman, Both Naylors, Jones, Chang and Curry...

I personally think that's way to much, but it's what it would take to get Murphy, you willing to do the deal?

From the outset.. Murphy's BTV is just too high to be considered for a deal.. He's a damn good back stop, just as valuable as he being presented..

A few notes on your proposal..

Andrus is included as a means to reduce the A's payroll/salary while reducing the overall dollar value BTV has place on Murphy's trade value..

Losing Jones, Freeman Chang and Josh Naylor.. would be no better than barely okay with me.. I would hate to lose both Bo and Xzavion... A good deal from the Guardians perspective that included Nolan Jones would include in the return from the A's Zack Gelof, who, I really like.. Bo Naylor is an unnecessary addition to the deal as the A's have three more backstops that are as good if not better and closer to being ML ready (Tyler Soderstrom, Shea Langeliers and Swiss army knife Jonah Bride). Keeping the Naylor brothers together would be nice.. but, that's not how the baseball business operates.. however, in this case.. Josh is a throw in or doesn't really matter to the deal.. Chang going anywhere might be in his best interest.. Chang is a clear change of scenery kind of guy right now..

Truth be told.. of the four catchers being mentioned in this discussion, I'd rate Langeliers as the most coveted followed by Murphy, & Soderstrom with Bride and Naylor virtually interchangeable.. If the deal was for Langeliers and some other pieces.. that would be the direction that may provide the most efficient means to acquire a ML starting C to pair with hedgie...

Several other iterations of a deal would be in order.. I'd start with:

Guards get langeliers and gelof..
A's get Freeman, Xzavion, Nolan Jones, & Chang

then move on/dicker from there..

 

[sportscoach]

From the outset.. Murphy's BTV is just too high to be considered for a deal.. He's a damn good back stop, just as valuable as he being presented..

A few notes on your proposal..

Andrus is included as a means to reduce the A's payroll/salary while reducing the overall dollar value BTV has place on Murphy's trade value..

Losing Jones, Freeman Chang and Josh Naylor.. would be no better than barely okay with me.. I would hate to lose both Bo and Xzavion... A good deal from the Guardians perspective that included Nolan Jones would include in the return from the A's Zack Gelof, who, I really like.. Bo Naylor is an unnecessary addition to the deal as the A's have three more backstops that are as good if not better and closer to being ML ready (Tyler Soderstrom, Shea Langeliers and Swiss army knife Jonah Bride). Keeping the Naylor brothers together would be nice.. but, that's not how the baseball business operates.. however, in this case.. Josh is a throw in or doesn't really matter to the deal.. Chang going anywhere might be in his best interest.. Chang is a clear change of scenery kind of guy right now..

Truth be told.. of the four catchers being mentioned in this discussion, I'd rate Langeliers as the most coveted followed by Murphy, & Soderstrom with Bride and Naylor virtually interchangeable.. If the deal was for Langeliers and some other pieces.. that would be the direction that may provide the most efficient means to acquire a ML starting C to pair with hedgie...

Several other iterations of a deal would be in order.. I'd start with:

Guards get langeliers and gelof..
A's get Freeman, Xzavion, Nolan Jones, & Chang

then move on/dicker from there..

Langeliers isnt going to be available... they will only trade from the big league club. It will be Murphy or not at all...

I am okay with keeping Naylor, but then we would have to figure out a different guy in his place.

If we do Murphy and Andrus, we would still have to get into the 50s... Freeman plus Jones, would get us to like 40, so we would need 15-20 more in the deal... Gimenez is at 11 then I am not moving Murphy without getting a SP back in the deal... so I would have to get Allen or Burns... Then Chang is just thrown in...

If we keep Naylor the deal would end up being...

Murphy plus Andrus for Freeman, Jones, Gimenez, Allen/Burns and Chang (plus maybe a lotto pick)

Could you live with that one?

Also I am curious if Andrus isnt willing to take a utility role, if we can eat his contract and swap him for a lotto pick in a sense...

 

[CDAV45]

@CDAV45 @Gson

You two like to talk trades, so another idea... (this one would be even more interesting if we could pull off that Herrera trade personally)

How can we get Murphy?...

He is listed at 65 for value, so we need to make a move to get near that, but I think that's a bit high personally, since I am not that high on his bat...

Murphy plus Andrus, for Freeman, Both Naylors, Jones, Chang and Curry...

I personally think that's way to much, but it's what it would take to get Murphy, you willing to do the deal?

What would we do with Andrus and I'm not a big Murphy fan at his current value. Freeman, Jones, Curry and both Naylors has significant value IMO. I would think a package like that could land a very good C if one were available.

We also have a MIFer or 2 that we can deal and perhaps a SP. Something has to happen because there isn't enough room for all of these guys.

 

[MadThinker88]

You might want to consider what the failed Matt Olson trade had..
that was Freeman, jones, tena, burns & Hickman.. young controllable talent and each with multiple yrs before arbitration..

I find it doubtful Gimenez & Josh Naylor would interest the A’s..

 

[CDAV45]

Might be able to get Alec Bohm for a decent price right now. He got caught saying "I fucking hate this place". lol

Give him a 1B mitt and see what happens. What would he cost?

 

[sportscoach]

What would we do with Andrus and I'm not a big Murphy fan at his current value. Freeman, Jones, Curry and both Naylors has significant value IMO. I would think a package like that could land a very good C if one were available.

We also have a MIFer or 2 that we can deal and perhaps a SP. Something has to happen because there isn't enough room for all of these guys.

Andrus would replace what Chang is essentially... Taking Andrus would just make it easier to get Murphy is all...

You might want to consider what the failed Matt Olson trade had..
that was Freeman, jones, tena, burns & Hickman.. young controllable talent and each with multiple yrs before arbitration..

I find it doubtful Gimenez & Josh Naylor would interest the A’s..

Actually Gimenez would be interesting to most rebuilding clubs... I don't have Allen as a SS long term personally, but I could be wrong and Naylor would just be a throw in to keep the brothers together since he isn't worth a lot right now honestly. Gimenez wouldn't be a bad idea for the A's in a sense outside of his clock has started.

Was the Olson deal confirmed or you just stating what you think would be in it?

 

[CDAV45]

Langeliers isnt going to be available... they will only trade from the big league club. It will be Murphy or not at all...

I am okay with keeping Naylor, but then we would have to figure out a different guy in his place.

If we do Murphy and Andrus, we would still have to get into the 50s... Freeman plus Jones, would get us to like 40, so we would need 15-20 more in the deal... Gimenez is at 11 then I am not moving Murphy without getting a SP back in the deal... so I would have to get Allen or Burns... Then Chang is just thrown in...

If we keep Naylor the deal would end up being...

Murphy plus Andrus for Freeman, Jones, Gimenez, Allen/Burns and Chang (plus maybe a lotto pick)

Could you live with that one?

Also I am curious if Andrus isnt willing to take a utility role, if we can eat his contract and swap him for a lotto pick in a sense...

We don't have enough "utility" guys for you? Andrus has no business in Cleveland and won't be part of a deal if one does come to fruition. You might need to get a 3rd team involved.

If Chernoff is able to deal both Naylors, Freeman, Jones, Gimenez and Chang then that would certainly create some breathing room and make dealing a good SP prospect like Burns or Curry worth while, but LT Allen is going nowhere.

 

[CDAV45]

Andrus would replace what Chang is essentially... Taking Andrus would just make it easier to get Murphy is all...



Actually Gimenez would be interesting to most rebuilding clubs... I don't have Allen as a SS long term personally, but I could be wrong and Naylor would just be a throw in to keep the brothers together since he isn't worth a lot right now honestly. Gimenez wouldn't be a bad idea for the A's in a sense outside of his clock has started.

Was the Olson deal confirmed or you just stating what you think would be in it?

We have Clement and Miller. You don't like what they're doing?

 

[sportscoach]

Might be able to get Alec Bohm for a decent price right now. He got caught saying "I fucking hate this place". lol

Give him a 1B mitt and see what happens. What would he cost?

I am not against getting Bohm... his value is 15.9 via BTV, so on paper, it would be a swap for Jones... I don't know exactly what they would want for him, but if they are willing to deal him, he definitely is a target in my mind... It would be a swap like Jones for him otherwise we are looking at 2-3 prospects for him on paper from the 10ish-20 area...

Also he has played 1B before just not a lot...

We have Clement and Miller. You don't like what they're doing?

Naw, he would take Chang's spot (hence why Chang is just thrown in for the A's). At the moment Miller has taken 1B... so Bradley is the one trying to get his spot back. Andrus would just be taken to lower the prospect cost to get Murphy is all, so may as well just see if he is willing to be a team player and a good veteran for us. I would trust Andrus over Chang in the reserve role. He is just a short term bench guy to a non-everyday role...

Also you know I have been a Clement supporter before he even made the roster...

 

[CDAV45]

I am not against getting Bohm... his value is 15.9 via BTV, so on paper, it would be a swap for Jones... I don't know exactly what they would want for him, but if they are willing to deal him, he definitely is a target in my mind... It would be a swap like Jones for him otherwise we are looking at 2-3 prospects for him on paper from the 10ish-20 area...

Also he has played 1B before just not a lot...



Naw, he would take Chang's spot (hence why Chang is just thrown in for the A's). At the moment Miller has taken 1B... so Bradley is the one trying to get his spot back. Andrus would just be taken to lower the prospect cost to get Murphy is all, so may as well just see if he is willing to be a team player and a good veteran for us. I would trust Andrus over Chang in the reserve role. He is just a short term bench guy to a non-everyday role...

So you would send Clement down to roster Andrus? That's what will happen when the roster gets reduced to 26 again. If they don't make any trades then somebody from the 5 MIFers has to go. I doubt it will be either Rosario or Gimenez and Miller is getting significant time at 1B so it will basically come down to keeping either Chang or Clement. Unless they send Miller down to keep Chang, but that would appear to be stupid at this time. Andrus does nothing but muddy the waters here. I'm not a huge Murphy fan anyway, but I'm totally against trading for him if it means we have to take Andrus too.

Miller hasn't really "taken 1B". It has fallen into his lap and I hate it because it reduces his value IMO. He's certainly not Gimenez with the glove, but Gimenez is playing out of position when at 2B anyway. Right now our MIF should be Gimenez at SS, Miller at 2B, and Clement the UIF. Oddly enough, I think Clement is the only one with any security of those 3 because Arias, Rocchio, Tena, Freeman, and whoever else I'm missing will certainly make themselves heard. It's a good position to be in, but they will have to make a few difficult decisions soon.

 

[sportscoach]

So you would send Clement down to roster Andrus? That's what will happen when the roster gets reduced to 26 again. If they don't make any trades then somebody from the 5 MIFers has to go. I doubt it will be either Rosario or Gimenez and Miller is getting significant time at 1B so it will basically come down to keeping either Chang or Clement. Unless they send Miller down to keep Chang, but that would appear to be stupid at this time. Andrus does nothing but muddy the waters here. I'm not a huge Murphy fan anyway, but I'm totally against trading for him if it means we have to take Andrus too.

Miller hasn't really "taken 1B". It has fallen into his lap and I hate it because it reduces his value IMO. He's certainly not Gimenez with the glove, but Gimenez is playing out of position when at 2B anyway. Right now our MIF should be Gimenez at SS, Miller at 2B, and Clement the UIF. Oddly enough, I think Clement is the only one with any security of those 3 because Arias, Rocchio, Tena, Freeman, and whoever else I'm missing will certainly make themselves heard. It's a good position to be in, but they will have to make a few difficult decisions soon.

I have Chang going to the A's in the deal and I am done with Bradley when Naylor comes back

My team would be C Murphy, Hedges 1B Miller, 2B Gimenez, SS Rosario, 3B JRam, LF Kwan, CF Straw, RF Naylor, Mercado, Util Clement, Andrus, DH Reyes,

Miller is taking 1B away from Bradley at the moment and if he keeps hitting, it's his to keep for this season...

 

[CDAV45]

I'd prefer to do something like this:
Guardians

NAME	AGE	LEVEL	P1	P2	AVAILABLILITY	YEARS	AFV	SALARY	SURPLUS	LOW	MEDIAN	HIGH
BOHM	25	MAJORS	3B		LOW	5.0	23.2	7.3	15.9	12.7	15.9	19.1
O'HOPPE		MINORS	C						8.5	6.8	8.5	10.2
PAINTER		MINORS	RHP						10.3	8.2	10.3	12.4
WILSON		MINORS	OF						8.5	6.8	8.5	10.2

TOTAL VALUE: 43.20​

PHILLIES​

NAME	AGE	LEVEL	P1	P2	AVAILABLILITY	YEARS	AFV	SALARY	SURPLUS	LOW	MEDIAN	HIGH
PLESAC	26	MAJORS	SP		LOW	4.0	37.4	13.3	24.1	19.3	24.1	28.9
ROSARIO	25	MAJORS	SS	OF	MEDIUM	2.0	31.1	12.0	19.1	15.3	19.1	23

TOTAL VALUE: 43.20​

 

[MadThinker88]

@sportscoach
For the Olson deal I was referring to the names provided by @BimboColesHair

 

[CDAV45]

Instead of paying out the backside for Murphy I would see if this would be accepted:
Guardians

NAME	AGE	LEVEL	P1	P2	AVAILABLILITY	YEARS	AFV	SALARY	SURPLUS	LOW	MEDIAN	HIGH
JANSEN	26	MAJORS	C		LOW	3.0	30.0	9.3	20.7	16.5	20.7	24.8

TOTAL VALUE: 20.70​

BLUE JAYS​

NAME	AGE	LEVEL	P1	P2	AVAILABLILITY	YEARS	AFV	SALARY	SURPLUS	LOW	MEDIAN	HIGH
MARTINEZ		MINORS	SS						6.3	5	6.3	7.6
NAYLOR		MINORS	C						14.4	11.5	14.4	17.3
NAYLOR	24	MAJORS	OF	1B	LOW	4.0	4.2	3.4	0.8	0.6	0.8	1

TOTAL VALUE: 21.50​

 

[sportscoach]

I'd prefer to do something like this:
Guardians

NAME	AGE	LEVEL	P1	P2	AVAILABLILITY	YEARS	AFV	SALARY	SURPLUS	LOW	MEDIAN	HIGH
BOHM	25	MAJORS	3B		LOW	5.0	23.2	7.3	15.9	12.7	15.9	19.1
O'HOPPE		MINORS	C						8.5	6.8	8.5	10.2
PAINTER		MINORS	RHP						10.3	8.2	10.3	12.4
WILSON		MINORS	OF						8.5	6.8	8.5	10.2

TOTAL VALUE: 43.20​

PHILLIES​

NAME	AGE	LEVEL	P1	P2	AVAILABLILITY	YEARS	AFV	SALARY	SURPLUS	LOW	MEDIAN	HIGH
PLESAC	26	MAJORS	SP		LOW	4.0	37.4	13.3	24.1	19.3	24.1	28.9
ROSARIO	25	MAJORS	SS	OF	MEDIUM	2.0	31.1	12.0	19.1	15.3	19.1	23

TOTAL VALUE: 43.20​

That puts us back in 22... If I was the Phillies I would laugh at that deal... I think it would be Bohm for a couple prospects...

Instead of paying out the backside for Murphy I would see if this would be accepted:
Guardians

NAME	AGE	LEVEL	P1	P2	AVAILABLILITY	YEARS	AFV	SALARY	SURPLUS	LOW	MEDIAN	HIGH
JANSEN	26	MAJORS	C		LOW	3.0	30.0	9.3	20.7	16.5	20.7	24.8

TOTAL VALUE: 20.70​

BLUE JAYS​

NAME	AGE	LEVEL	P1	P2	AVAILABLILITY	YEARS	AFV	SALARY	SURPLUS	LOW	MEDIAN	HIGH
MARTINEZ		MINORS	SS						6.3	5	6.3	7.6
NAYLOR		MINORS	C						14.4	11.5	14.4	17.3
NAYLOR	24	MAJORS	OF	1B	LOW	4.0	4.2	3.4	0.8	0.6	0.8	1

TOTAL VALUE: 21.50​

You know Jansen is hurt right now right? Though at the same time, I can understand going after Jansen over Murphy cause of the costs