24 Off-Season GM Thread

[petes999]

Barrosa is known for his plus defense and plus batters eye... I mean a 15.9% BB rate in AAA with a 16.3 SO rate... He's a perfect 4th OF since he hits switch and has plus speed...

Look at his numbers... everything is there to be a solid big league player... Not like I am trying to make him a starter, but a 4th OF

I am looking at moving Straw, and getting him to replace long term... Creating the room to keep Florial plus keep DDLS long term. We have Tena's replacement in house, plus he's going to be blocked here anyways.

Right now Tena is my #3 SS w gap after that (so wouldn't trade him so fast till it gets solved) .. that is if they don't move Gimenez to SS for Freeman, Martinez or Brito at 2nd.

 

[sportscoach]

Right now Tena is my #3 SS w gap after that (so wouldn't trade him so fast till it gets solved) .. that is if they don't move Gimenez to SS for Freeman, Martinez or Brito at 2nd.

I just feel like between, Arias, Rocchio, Freeman, Martinez, Brito etc... One has to take the spot beside Gimenez, ya know?

 

[CDAV45]

I feel like Bimbo essentially said Straw is worth more than we believe, but his value is purely defensively and even with the poor bat he has still been a positive bWAR guy... (I mean he had 1.1 bWAR in 23...)

@Tondo @Gson

A guy like Cole Schoenwetter back for Straw... Would that be worth doing?

He spoke in regards to how much money they'd have to send with him. I mentioned no money at all.

I wouldn't give our 18th ranked prospect to get him under any circumstances. Sure, it would be worth getting Schoenwetter, but the Reds aren't going to do anything that stupid. If they have any interest in Straw then they'll take on the lion's share of the contract and Cleveland's FO will be grateful for them doing so.

 

[CDAV45]

I just feel like between, Arias, Rocchio, Freeman, Martinez, Brito etc... One has to take the spot beside Gimenez, ya know?

Here's how I'd handle the situation if possible:
1. Let Arias play his way off of SS. If he doesn't show signs of tapping into his potential by the break then it's time for change.
2. Deal Rocchio before he loses most of his value. He might be able to fetch a nice young SP.
3. Continue with Martinez's and Brito's development in regards to versatility. If Arias doesn't work out those 2 are the better options at this point.
4. Freeman is a utility player with good contact skills. Keep him, trade him I don't really care. Nice little ballplayer for sure, but he doesn't have the upside to makes us drool over him.
5. Tena is the lost man in this equation. Oddly enough he might be one of the better options. I'm surprised he isn't getting reps in CF too.

 

[petes999]

My question is why would a team that MAY make playoffs this year but has a deep system and 1-2 pick want a guy like Straw with 3 yr commitment to clog their 26 man roster. Wouldn’t it be better to play Benson and find a 1 yr rental in July if they are near playoff contention?

 

[BimboColesHair]

I'm with Bimbo regarding Straw's value

See, we still agree on things!

 

[Tondo]

See, we still agree on things!

Sure, we actually agree on a lot of stuff. The SS battle will play itself out, we're just on different runways, but as long as one takes off, we'll be fine

 

[BimboColesHair]

Sure, we actually agree on a lot of stuff. The SS battle will play itself out, we're just on different runways, but as long as one takes off, we'll be fine

Probably 99% of things.

And let’s clear something up. I’m not on a single runway.

Never been my stance.

Stance has always been Rocchio, as he was last year and a good part of what he’s been so far in camp, was not a risk free player and was full of risk, but we wanted to act like only Arias was the risky prospect.

You simply can’t succeed in the MLB hitting the ball as softly as he was/is.

Doesn’t mean I don’t like him. He keeps impacting the ball like he has over the last week and we’re back to the legit top 20 prospect in baseball Rocchio. He reverts back to who he was last year and the first few weeks of ST, as the guy with by far the worst contact metrics in games on teams that featured Myles Straw, Cam Gallagher, and Austin Hedges, and we have problems.

I like a lot about Arias. I like a lot about Rocchio. My issue has always been that Arias was viewed as risky while Rocchio was not. They both are risky.

But I still think we get the pick right next to Gimenez with an All-Star caliber player when all is said and done. That’s my stance. I couldn’t care less who it ends up being.

 

[Gson]

Probably 99% of things.

And let’s clear something up. I’m not on a single runway.

Never been my stance.

Stance has always been Rocchio, as he was last year and a good part of what he’s been so far in camp, was not a risk free player and was full of risk, but we wanted to act like only Arias was the risky prospect.

You simply can’t succeed in the MLB hitting the ball as softly as he was/is.

Doesn’t mean I don’t like him. He keeps impacting the ball like he has over the last week and we’re back to the legit top 20 prospect in baseball Rocchio. He reverts back to who he was last year and the first few weeks of ST, as the guy with by far the worst contact metrics in games on teams that featured Myles Straw, Cam Gallagher, and Austin Hedges, and we have problems.

I like a lot about Arias. I like a lot about Rocchio. My issue has always been that Arias was viewed as risky while Rocchio was not. They both are risky.

But I still think we get the pick right next to Gimenez with an All-Star caliber player when all is said and done. That’s my stance. I couldn’t care less who it ends up being.

there are some parallels between what was seen with Yandy and Arias.. both hit the ball hard.. very hard.. just no loft.. both couldn't get back spin on the ball.. no loft.. no float.. no home runs.. but the hard hit ability was there.. Ever so slowly, Yandy has introduced loft into his repertoire.. and we're seeing some of that with Arias.. or, at least, some.. It may take P-Val another off season to get Arias right..but it's coming..

We'll see..

BTW.. Rocchio will always be a question offensively, imho..That doesn't mean helpless.. he'll have the ability to contribute.. hopefully in clutch situations.. His BB IQ is high enough to achieve that.. but, every other part of his game remains at or approaching elite status.. Any club can live with that.. Rocchio could become a piece to a winning puzzle..

 

[BimboColesHair]

there are some parallels between what was seen with Yandy and Arias.. both hit the ball hard.. very hard.. just no loft.. both couldn't get back spin on the ball.. no loft.. no float.. no home runs.. but the hard hit ability was there.. Ever so slowly, Yandy has introduced loft into his repertoire.. and we're seeing some of that with Arias.. or, at least, some.. It may take P-Val another off season to get Arias right..but it's coming..

We'll see..

BTW.. Rocchio will always be a question offensively, imho..That doesn't mean helpless.. he'll have the ability to contribute.. hopefully in clutch situations.. His BB IQ is high enough to achieve that.. but, every other part of his game remains at or approaching elite status.. Any club can live with that.. Rocchio could become a piece to a winning puzzle..

I don't agree with the bolded, which is why the risk exists for me.

His best tool has always been his mental view of the game. I think, at the MLB level, everything else he does is average right now. The arm, the defense at SS, the speed. He just hasn't progressed any further in those areas, a lot of which has to do with God given physical limitations.

If he is going to be an impact player in the MLB his bat is going to have to carry him, and therein lies the risk and why the batted ball metrics are a major concern.

 

[Tondo]

Probably 99% of things.

And let’s clear something up. I’m not on a single runway.

Never been my stance.

Stance has always been Rocchio, as he was last year and a good part of what he’s been so far in camp, was not a risk free player and was full of risk, but we wanted to act like only Arias was the risky prospect.

You simply can’t succeed in the MLB hitting the ball as softly as he was/is.

Doesn’t mean I don’t like him. He keeps impacting the ball like he has over the last week and we’re back to the legit top 20 prospect in baseball Rocchio. He reverts back to who he was last year and the first few weeks of ST, as the guy with by far the worst contact metrics in games on teams that featured Myles Straw, Cam Gallagher, and Austin Hedges, and we have problems.

I like a lot about Arias. I like a lot about Rocchio. My issue has always been that Arias was viewed as risky while Rocchio was not. They both are risky.

But I still think we get the pick right next to Gimenez with an All-Star caliber player when all is said and done. That’s my stance. I couldn’t care less who it ends up being.

I know, and we've been there before. When you have more than one promising prospect for an opening and consistent playing time is essential for development, then the decision who gets first and more consistent runway is already a decision at the cost of the prospects who have to wait on the runway. That's been my beef all along. I don't care either who wins it, that's why I kept harping they better be right, because if prospect A blocks prospect B and prospect A fails, that can have a negative trickle down effect. See our OF decisions.

For SS, if Arias fails and blocks Rocchio out of his chance, this increases the chances Rocchio fails too, because he either doesn't get a lengthy runway himself or the decision on him gets rushed.

My point all along has been: pecking order matters... Like a fucking lot. Both are risks? Cool. But why go with risk A over B and why for so fucking long? That's not even only Arias vs Rocchio. This decision has already cost Freeman's prospects.

Yes, my opinion is that they've chosen the wrong one, I've been vocal about that too. Not because I don't see Arias' talent, but because I believe he'll take years to "maybe" get there and fully flourish. I hope I'm wrong because I want to see the Guards winning in April and May too. That's why I keep saying that they better have this right M, because Arias is their no1 guy. If he fails, he probably failed a couple of others in the process and everyone coming after him starts off a step behind.

Arias got the clean sheet, the red carpet and that's the decision I have a problem with.

Sure, every prospect is a risk, but that's just scout double speak to hide a conscious decision. I'm sorry Bimbo, but you've placed your bet too. It's like you say you like two girls and then propose to one of them and see how it goes. If it fails you can always say you liked them both. Second girl is gone though.

 

[BimboColesHair]

I know, and we've been there before. When you have more than one promising prospect for an opening and consistent playing time is essential for development, then the decision who gets first and more consistent runway is already a decision at the cost of the prospects who have to wait on the runway. That's been my beef all along. I don't care either who wins it, that's why I kept harping they better be right, because if prospect A blocks prospect B and prospect A fails, that can have a negative trickle down effect. See our OF decisions.

For SS, if Arias fails and blocks Rocchio out of his chance, this increases the chances Rocchio fails too, because he either doesn't get a lengthy runway himself or the decision on him gets rushed.

My point all along has been: pecking order matters... Like a fucking lot. Both are risks? Cool. But why go with risk A over B and why for so fucking long? That's not even only Arias vs Rocchio. This decision has already cost Freeman's prospects.

Yes, my opinion is that they've chosen the wrong one, I've been vocal about that too. Not because I don't see Arias' talent, but because I believe he'll take years to "maybe" get there and fully flourish. I hope I'm wrong because I want to see the Guards winning in April and May too. That's why I keep saying that they better have this right M, because Arias is their no1 guy. If he fails, he probably failed a couple of others in the process and everyone coming after him starts off a step behind.

Arias got the clean sheet, the red carpet and that's the decision I have a problem with.

Sure, every prospect is a risk, but that's just scout double speak to hide a conscious decision. I'm sorry Bimbo, but you've placed your bet too. It's like you say you like two girls and then propose to one of them and see how it goes. If it fails you can always say you liked them both. Second girl is gone though.

My job isn't to be partial to one specific player. Will never be my viewpoint on things because that's not how baseball works either. The odds are low, the results varying, and the end game nearly impossible to predict.

I haven't "placed my bet". I'm not betting on Arias to beat out Rocchio. In fact, most places I have said quite the opposite. Predicting prospects is an odds game, and I will always hedge the bet and go with the guy who hits more.

And I don't agree that "they've chosen the wrong one". Because they haven't chose a single one yet. If you want to be mad at something for keeping you from seeing Rocchio get his chance earlier, blame no one wanting Amed Rosario in the winter of 2022/2023, not Arias.

 

[Tondo]

Oh, I've blamed Amed, like a lot. Another thing we agreed on.

I miss Q, btw, who led the bandwagon of the Amed Rosario hate club. Anyone know where he is? Hope he's alright.

 

[sportscoach]

Oh, I've blamed Amed, like a lot. Another thing we agreed on.

I miss Q, btw, who led the bandwagon of the Amed Rosario hate club. Anyone know where he is? Hope he's alright.

Q has a tendency to take breaks from here...

 

[CDAV45]

I know, and we've been there before. When you have more than one promising prospect for an opening and consistent playing time is essential for development, then the decision who gets first and more consistent runway is already a decision at the cost of the prospects who have to wait on the runway. That's been my beef all along. I don't care either who wins it, that's why I kept harping they better be right, because if prospect A blocks prospect B and prospect A fails, that can have a negative trickle down effect. See our OF decisions.

For SS, if Arias fails and blocks Rocchio out of his chance, this increases the chances Rocchio fails too, because he either doesn't get a lengthy runway himself or the decision on him gets rushed.

My point all along has been: pecking order matters... Like a fucking lot. Both are risks? Cool. But why go with risk A over B and why for so fucking long? That's not even only Arias vs Rocchio. This decision has already cost Freeman's prospects.

Yes, my opinion is that they've chosen the wrong one, I've been vocal about that too. Not because I don't see Arias' talent, but because I believe he'll take years to "maybe" get there and fully flourish. I hope I'm wrong because I want to see the Guards winning in April and May too. That's why I keep saying that they better have this right M, because Arias is their no1 guy. If he fails, he probably failed a couple of others in the process and everyone coming after him starts off a step behind.

Arias got the clean sheet, the red carpet and that's the decision I have a problem with.

Sure, every prospect is a risk, but that's just scout double speak to hide a conscious decision. I'm sorry Bimbo, but you've placed your bet too. It's like you say you like two girls and then propose to one of them and see how it goes. If it fails you can always say you liked them both. Second girl is gone though.

I think this is where you and I have most of our disagreement. You think they're fucked if they "chose wrong". Me, I don't think they've chosen anything and if neither claims the position they have a few other good options. One of them being Gimenez moving back to SS and one of Brito or Martinez staking a claim.

Arias got the "clean sheet, red carpet" because he's the more talented player Tondo. I think you have a pretty good baseball mind so you have to see it. What I can't understand is how you are so locked onto Rocchio. If we're being honest neither has been awe inspiring, but the more talented individual is blatant.

Edited to ask a question that I thought of after posting. If you were promised that both Rocchio and Arias would reach their ceilings which one would you choose? Like I said, they have to find out even though Arias is the bigger risk. He's also the biggest reward.