Andre Drummond - LeBron's Robin

[Murph]

Look, that was a great trade by Altman to acquire Allen and Prince for a 1st round pick and Exum’s expiring. But the Cavs didn’t give up a 1st round pick if they don’t intend to try and resign Allen.

The writing is on the wall. Allen is younger, cheaper and a more prototypical modern day NBA center. And the Cavs don’t need 2 starting centers and they can’t afford to pay both, along with Love.

Also Drummond has great chemistry with Osman, Nance and Okoro. But what happens when Sexton comes back? Sexton is going to want to play with Allen, who needs many fewer touches, not Drummond.

Something’s gotta give, and that something should be moving Drummond. The Cavs should trade him as soon as possible, when his trade value is at its highest. There have been a couple of proposed landing spots, Dallas and Charlotte. Both teams need help getting over the hump, both teams need an upgrade at center, and both teams could easily swing a trade for Drummond.

And Altman would look like a genius. He would have acquired Drummond for a 2nd round pick, rented him for a year, and dumped him for a 1st round pick. Another way to look at it would be that he’d have acquired Allen and Prince for a 2nd rounder and an exchange of 1st rounders with either Dallas or Charlotte. Either way, Altman looks brilliant.

Trading Drummond to Dallas or Charlotte is a win-win for both the Cavs and Drummond. Do it before Drummond gets hurt.

 

[avs2000]

Look, that was a great trade by Altman to acquire Allen and Prince for a 1st round pick and Exum’s expiring. But the Cavs didn’t give up a 1st round pick if they don’t intend to try and resign Allen.

The writing is on the wall. Allen is younger, cheaper and a more prototypical modern day NBA center. And the Cavs don’t need 2 starting centers and they can’t afford to pay both, along with Love.

Also Drummond has great chemistry with Osman, Nance and Okoro. But what happens when Sexton comes back? Sexton is going to want to play with Allen, who needs many fewer touches, not Drummond.

Something’s gotta give, and that something should be moving Drummond. The Cavs should trade him as soon as possible, when his trade value is at its highest. There have been a couple of proposed landing spots, Dallas and Charlotte. Both teams need help getting over the hump, both teams need an upgrade at center, and both teams could easily swing a trade for Drummond.

And Altman would look like a genius. He would have acquired Drummond for a 2nd round pick, rented him for a year, and dumped him for a 1st round pick. Another way to look at it would be that he’d have acquired Allen and Prince for a 2nd rounder and an exchange of 1st rounders with either Dallas or Charlotte. Either way, Altman looks brilliant.

Trading Drummond to Dallas or Charlotte is a win-win for both the Cavs and Drummond. Do it before Drummond gets hurt.

For who. Contracts have to match

 

[Murph]

For who. Contracts have to match

Read back. Several workable trades with Dallas and Charlotte have already been proposed.

 

[Derek]

For who. Contracts have to match

Charlotte works if we can find someone to take Rozier.

Dallas is much tougher, and far more unlikely due to WCS not being eligible for a trade until Feb. 5 and then having the ability to block any trade.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

If Drummond didn't have any meaningful games or critical moments in five years with Detroit because they only made it to the playoffs once, then how can you count last night's game for the 6-7 Cavs as a meaningful game or critical moment?

Every game is meaningful unless you've been eliminated. That win over the Knicks could be the difference between making the playoffs or not.

Adam said, "If you rely on him to win you anything meaningful or perform in critical moments, you're likely to regret it." I thought the last couple of minutes against the Knicks qualified as a "critcal moment" of a potentially meaningful game.

As for counting on Drummond to "win you anything meaningful", I suppose the person who made that statement would have to define what qualifies as "meaningful" and explain why you can't count on Drummond to contribute to it. I agree that Drummond won't "win you anything" simply because I see basketball as a team game and one player can't win anything by himself, not even LeBron, who won one Championship in 11 years in Cleveland but three in six years with Miami and LA.

It's about whether you can contribute to winning in a positive way and I don't see how Drummond has demonstrated that he can't perform well in critical moments or help a team win anything meaningful.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

If he can't/hasn't lead any of his teams to meaningful games/moments, wouldn't that mean you can't count on him for those games/moments?

No. Every game is meaningful until you've been eliminated from playoff contention or knocked out of the playoffs. Drummond has played in hundreds of meaningful games. You would have to show that he consistently failed to come through in critical moments of close games in order to say "he can't be counted on in critical moments".

If you're trying to say he can't lead a bad team to the playoffs then I would agree with that. That's what happened seven times in Detroit. But show me somebody who can. James Harden? He just forced a trade because he found himself on a bad team that he knew he couldn't lead to the playoffs.

 

[OptimusPrime]

Honestly, Drummond probably would be a beast in Brooklyn. They would never give him the ball on a post up or in any position where he could dribble the ball. And I doubt even he would complain about Durant, Harden, and Irving taking shots from him. All he would be able to do is rebound, play defense, and shoot the occasional layup. Missing half of his layups isn't as detrimental the fewer he takes.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Honestly, Drummond probably would be a beast in Brooklyn. They would never give him the ball on a post up or in any position where he could dribble the ball. And I doubt even he would complain about Durant, Harden, and Irving taking shots from him. All he would be able to do is rebound, play defense, and shoot the occasional layup. Missing half of his layups isn't as detrimental the fewer he takes.

They have nothing to give us. The most unrealistic trading partner it seems like.

 

[OptimusPrime]

They have nothing to give us. The most unrealistic trading partner it seems like.

I was referring to the conversation earlier in the thread. I assume the only way he would get there is if the Cavs buy him out.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Every game is meaningful unless you've been eliminated. That win over the Knicks could be the difference between making the playoffs or not.

He never played any meaningful games for the Pistons. They only finished over .500 once when he was there (44-38) and they were eliminated 4-0 by the Cleveland LeBrons in the first round. Drummond was 22.

Well, congrats. By taking directly conflicting position on the same issue depending upon how it suits your argument, you've outmaneuvered me. Well done!

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Well, congrats. By taking directly conflicting position on the same issue depending upon how it suits your argument, you've outmaneuvered me. Well done!

Yeah, I'm aware I reversed course. I was trying to say he never had the chance to "win anything meaningful" for the Pistons because they never had a team capable of winning anything meaningful.

As for the other criticism, which was that Drummond doesn't "perform in critical moments", you would have to show that in critical moments of individual games he failed to perform, which wasn't the case in the game against the Knicks.

I would also point out that if not for 33 points and 23 rebounds the last five minutes or so of the Knicks game would not have any critical moments.

 

[Rich]

Honestly, Drummond probably would be a beast in Brooklyn. They would never give him the ball on a post up or in any position where he could dribble the ball. And I doubt even he would complain about Durant, Harden, and Irving taking shots from him. All he would be able to do is rebound, play defense, and shoot the occasional layup. Missing half of his layups isn't as detrimental the fewer he takes.

No see I disagree with this.

part of the reason I think Drummond has been so engaged defensively is because JBB is giving him a lot of freedom on offense. Sometimes to the detriment of the team.

But you see this with McGee too. McGee wouldn't take half of these shots on a contending team that he's taking now. But I think JBB lets that happen because it's getting them to play hard on defense.

McGee can reign that in when he's asked. I don't know if Drummond can and still be engaged.

 

[daddywags]

New York has Dallas's picks tied up through 2025. Unless they want to make the 2023 pick unconditional, the earliest pick they can trade is 2027. I think there's a limit on how far out picks can be traded, so the 2027 pick, if allowed, would probably have to be either unconditional or revert to second round picks if not conveyed. I wouldn't take on any 2021-22 salary for that.

 

[OptimusPrime]

No see I disagree with this.

part of the reason I think Drummond has been so engaged defensively is because JBB is giving him a lot of freedom on offense. Sometimes to the detriment of the team.

But you see this with McGee too. McGee wouldn't take half of these shots on a contending team that he's taking now. But I think JBB lets that happen because it's getting them to play hard on defense.

McGee can reign that in when he's asked. I don't know if Drummond can and still be engaged.

You could be right. I just figure playing with 3 guys that even his mother would tell him are better than he is would reign him in a bit. But maybe he's incapable of that.

 

[bigking777]

Playoff experience is so meaningful. I want the young ones to get a taste, even if they get blown out as an eighth seed in the first round.

Drummond helps get you there. Then let him walk after the season and retool with a mid round draft pick and some quality trades/free agent signings.

Build for the future.