Baker Mayfield: Fire The Cannons

[Vee-Rex]

Edit- to play your game, if Nick Chubb runs a post instead of a flat Baker doesn’t throw the ball

Right. He decides not to throw the ball because it's the incorrect route. It's a split-second decision.

Chubb ran the incorrect route (as in he drifted instead of going where he should have been). Re-watch the play - Baker makes the decision to throw the ball well before Chubb reaches the point in the route where Chubb must flatten. There's no such thing as waiting to see if Chubb isn't going to run it correctly and throwing it to the incorrect spot - all of this is happening in milliseconds. That would be idiotic QB play and you'd be out of the league before the year is out doing that.

You have absolutely no ground here. If Baker decides to throw it to where Chubb is facing and Chubb runs it correctly by turning outward, it's an incomplete pass. You can't blame Baker for not predicting that Chubb would run it incorrectly. The decision to throw and throwing motion is already made before the point in time Chubb must flatten.

 

[DJTJ]

Right. He decides not to throw the ball because it's the incorrect route. It's a split-second decision.

Chubb ran the incorrect route (as in he drifted instead of going where he should have been). Re-watch the play - Baker makes the decision to throw the ball well before Chubb reaches the point in the route where Chubb must flatten. There's no such thing as waiting to see if Chubb isn't going to run it correctly and throwing it to the incorrect spot - all of this is happening in milliseconds. That would be idiotic QB play and you'd be out of the league before the year is out doing that.

You have absolutely no ground here. If Baker decides to throw it to where Chubb is facing and Chubb runs it correctly by turning outward, it's an incomplete pass. You can't blame Baker for not predicting that Chubb would run it incorrectly. The decision to throw and throwing motion is already made before the point in time Chubb must flatten.

If Nick Chubb runs a post from the backfield, Baker never throws the ball because it’s not the play call.

Nick Chubb drifted AFTER the ball was 1/2 between him and the QB. When he drifts, he gives himself more time to track with the ball in the air.

When Baker threw it, Nick’s break hadn’t occurred. Your argument of a post route is irrelevant to the route concept on the play.

Baker Mayfield makes the correct read, rushes the throw, and lets a bullet out on a flat before Chubb turns his head. Chubb drifts BECAUSE the throw. The ball should be delivered to his chest. You’re not running down a bullet in the flat.

 

[Vee-Rex]

If Nick Chubb runs a post from the backfield, Baker never throws the ball because it’s not the play call.

Nick Chubb drifted AFTER the ball was 1/2 between him and the QB. When he drifts, he gives himself more time to track with the ball in the air.

When Baker threw it, Nick’s break hadn’t occurred. Your argument of a post route is irrelevant to the route concept on the play.

My argument about the post route is to illustrate that a QB isn't going to make a split-second decision and promptly put the ball in the perfect spot if his target is running an incorrect pattern. You think it's irrelevant but it's showing how flimsy your argument is.

Baker Mayfield makes the correct read, rushes the throw, and lets a bullet out on a flat before Chubb turns his head. Chubb drifts BECAUSE the throw. The ball should be delivered to his chest. You’re not running down a bullet in the flat.

Nah, bruh. That sounds like BS, you can't speak for why Chubb drifted. His back was turned the whole time. Can you name the type of route he ran?

If Chubb ran the correct route (which is what I prefaced my position with the whole time), then it's on Baker. But it looks like he was supposed to flatten at the line of scrimmage which is a very common route for RBs. It wasn't even a wheel route because he turned and expected the ball before turning up the sideline.

If you're not biased against Baker then you simply don't understand route concepts nor the effects of route-running. If Chubb flattens at the line of scrimmage it's a completion every time. It might be a bit high (as Baker tends to throw it sometimes) but it's a catch. At THAT point you can blame Baker for poor ball placement, but you can't blame him for putting the ball where the target should be.

This is by far one of the worst arguments I've seen against Baker let alone any QB - to say that it's his fault for throwing to the right spot on a quick throw-first read, and to say if he HAD thrown to Chubb's path and Chubb flattened (as he should have), it would still be Baker's fault. Wow.

 

[buzzdog]

Is *everything* Baker's fault? Of course not. There have been drops, lack of separation on routes, protection breakdowns etc.

But the point that so many of us are screaming and will continue to scream is that if Baker was better, almost all of the other things I just pointed out that are also negatively impacting this offense would suddenly become way less detrimental because good/great QB play almost always trumps all.

QB play is pretty much always going to have the most impact on an offense's success or failure.

There's plenty to find fault with Baker and he has clearly struggled this year. All year long I've seen other quarterbacks get bailed out at times and some of them were game winning plays. Mahomes got bailed out against us. I've seen Lamar get bailed out on shaky throws too. When those games are over everyone forgets about how the receiver bailed them out and they get full credit as though they were throwing dimes.

I can't recall a single time when any of our receivers helped Baker in that way. We're lucky if they catch balls that hit them in the hands or chest. If they're covered or in traffic you can bet it won't get caught.

You also ignore the effect of our pass protection breaking down but you're quick to point out when it does hold up. Lots of rushers have had untouched free runs at Mayfield and there's nothing but crickets if not criticism for not throwing it away quick enough.

I see other offenses run route schemes that have receivers running completely open on a third of their passing downs but Browns routes are never open in that way, always coverage nearby and sometimes our receivers are running routes too close together.

The bottom line is that Mayfield is completely on his own when it comes to the passing game if the running game is not clicking. And you expect him to overcome it completely on his own when he's already struggling on his own.

 

[buzzdog]

My argument about the post route is to illustrate that a QB isn't going to make a split-second decision and promptly put the ball in the perfect spot if his target is running an incorrect pattern. You think it's irrelevant but it's showing how flimsy your argument is.

Nah, bruh. That sounds like BS, you can't speak for why Chubb drifted. His back was turned the whole time. Can you name the type of route he ran?

If Chubb ran the correct route (which is what I prefaced my position with the whole time), then it's on Baker. But it looks like he was supposed to flatten at the line of scrimmage which is a very common route for RBs. It wasn't even a wheel route because he turned and expected the ball before turning up the sideline.

If you're not biased against Baker then you simply don't understand route concepts nor the effects of route-running. If Chubb flattens at the line of scrimmage it's a completion every time. It might be a bit high (as Baker tends to throw it sometimes) but it's a catch. At THAT point you can blame Baker for poor ball placement, but you can't blame him for putting the ball where the target should be.

This is by far one of the worst arguments I've seen against Baker let alone any QB - to say that it's his fault for throwing to the right spot on a quick throw-first read, and to say if he HAD thrown to Chubb's path and Chubb flattened (as he should have), it would still be Baker's fault. Wow.

DJTJ and Los are really wrong on this argument. There's plenty to critique but not on this play. I know I won't be relying on either of them for correct analysis when they choose this as a point to defend.

 

[Vee-Rex]

DJTJ and Los are really wrong on this argument. There's plenty to critique but not on this play. I know I won't be relying on either of them for correct analysis when they choose this as a point to defend.

I expect it from Los no surprises there, but not really DJTJ lol. He's still my homeboy though.

 

[adam81king]

There's plenty to find fault with Baker and he has clearly struggled this year. All year long I've seen other quarterbacks get bailed out at times and some of them were game winning plays. Mahomes got bailed out against us. I've seen Lamar get bailed out on shaky throws too. When those games are over everyone forgets about how the receiver bailed them out and they get full credit as though they were throwing dimes.

I can't recall a single time when any of our receivers helped Baker in that way. We're lucky if they catch balls that hit them in the hands or chest. If they're covered or in traffic you can bet it won't get caught.

You also ignore the effect of our pass protection breaking down but you're quick to point out when it does hold up. Lots of rushers have had untouched free runs at Mayfield and there's nothing but crickets if not criticism for not throwing it away quick enough.

I see other offenses run route schemes that have receivers running completely open on a third of their passing downs but Browns routes are never open in that way, always coverage nearby and sometimes our receivers are running routes too close together.

The bottom line is that Mayfield is completely on his own when it comes to the passing game if the running game is not clicking. And you expect him to overcome it completely on his own when he's already struggling on his own.

Baker is 2-8 in games when he has ball in his hands in the last 3 minutes and needs a TD to win/tie the game.

 

[Vee-Rex]

Baker is 2-8 in games when he has ball in his hands in the last 3 minutes and needs a TD to win/tie the game.

I believe it's 2/8, right?

 

[adam81king]

I believe it's 2/8, right?

Won 2 games, lost 8.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Baker is 2-8 in games when he has ball in his hands in the last 3 minutes and needs a TD to win/tie the game.

I think some times stats like this are tough to unpack........as there is a lot that still goes in to "winning" a game on one drive.

The more demoralizing thing is not that we have fell short in this small subset.......it is that we look completely unable to even move the ball.

It isn't even that we are losing when the ball is in his hands.......it is that we literally have no shot.

 

[AZ_]

Yikes

 

[bob2the2nd]

Yikes

Yeah man Landry really fucked Baker here....

Though actually we have no idea which guy was "right" and which was "wrong" or maybe neither. Baker threw to an open Landry coming out of his cut. Issue was Landry decide to go away from the spot he was open and did a second move. Ball was already in the air at that point and went straight to the defender. Shit happens

 

[Urban]

Seemed like some sort of miscommunication

 

[I'mWithDan]

Seemed like some sort of miscommunication

Yeah, watching that again........it just has to be that to me.

Baker wasn't super sharp yesterday........but that is not just a bad miss, it is egregiously bad.

Not a miss in the sense I think it is 100% on Baker.......just that when the mesh point on the throw and route is that far off, it has to be miscommunication to me.

It honestly is thrown 3 yards left of where Landry is expecting it.......and it was in a relatively clean pocket, with a clean throwing lane. It would be incredibly weird if Baker just flat out made that bad of a throw but maybe they will talk about it at some point in post game stuff.

 

[Urban]

Yeah, watching that again........it just has to be that to me.

Baker wasn't super sharp yesterday........but that is not just a bad miss, it is egregiously bad.

Not a miss in the sense I think it is 100% on Baker.......just that when the mesh point on the throw and route is that far off, it has to be miscommunication to me.

It honestly is thrown 3 yards left of where Landry is expecting it.......and it was in a relatively clean pocket, with a clean throwing lane. It would be incredibly weird if Baker just flat out made that bad of a throw but maybe they will talk about it at some point in post game stuff.

Right, we'd seen Baker sail plenty of balls. I personally think he put this one where he wanted it but either Landry ran the wrong route or Baker had the wrong route.

Whatever the case, not exactly great.