Baker Mayfield: Fire The Cannons

[FiveThous]

We're far enough into Baker's actual NFL career for the QBase pre-draft evaluation stuff to not matter anymore, right?

That’s not what I was saying. Just saying it was very likely it was a consensus in the FO, not just a Dorsey pick. AB also happened to be in there.

 

[Vee-Rex]

I’ve seen it said a lot… I’m not sure Baker taking snaps behind Hance and Hudson is evidence that baker can only perform at a high level behind ‘elite’ line play…. I think most QBs in the league would struggle behind those two. Even serviceable backups in there and these are different games. Hell, we watched Baker play damn well behind Hubbard last year.

There’s plenty of other fair criticism to go around with Baker.

Idk... I feel like he loses confidence quickly when he doesn't feel like he has all day back there. Lots of second-guessing, terrible footwork, and just overall baby dick energy when it comes to attacking downfield. Trust your eyes and brain, stop taking sacks, and when you see you have leverage just let it rip, my dude.

Who knows, maybe he finds his drip on Thursday against the Broncos but a couple injuries here and there isn't gonna cut it as an excuse when the contract talks start. Baker's got his work cut out for him.

Even so, I STILL believe in him. Things can get a lot better pretty quickly.

 

[I'mWithDan]

That’s not what I was saying. Just saying it was very likely it was a consensus in the FO, not just a Dorsey pick. AB also happened to be in there.

True. But AB also said this, when earlier asked about Baker / Extension.

“Like all of our players, we want to see them take strides and show growth as we go into Year 2 within our offensive and defensive systems.”

I think AB is far more ruthless and calculated. He has talked extensively about the offensive system and talent, and how everything is about making it easier on the QB. The situation is as good as it can be IMO. I suspect that is so they can very easily evaluate the merits of the QB, especially when we are talking about extensions being in the $150 mil+ range recently.

I think the clock has already started on Baker here. He has to play significantly better IMO for us to not explore options. That doesn’t mean there will be an option we like but we have hit the point in Baker’s career where it is no longer clear that he is a player you want to commit long term money to.

 

[Binkster]

Baker isn't the guy you want leading a shootout team. He's not Mahomes, Rogers, Brady.. Hell, Brady needed defense for his playoff wins and Superbowls.

Baker pisses me off with some of his misreads, hesitation, dancing around, pump fakes, etc and etc.

He's more of a game manager, strong run game, make a few perfect throws, spreads the ball around, protects the ball besides today. The factors are him not having faith in his line, leads to scrambling and overthinking, and scared to take a hit due to existing injury.

We simply can't play the defense we are playing. The current defensive scheme calls for Baker to play perfect fucking football and he's not your perfect QB.

This defense doesn't give him the ball off turnovers. They do him no favors when he turns it over. They did him no favors the last 2 weeks.

Once again, I'm livid with Baker's play, mainly just seeing the field and missing guys, not throwing the homerun. Takeaway the hail mary prayer of a TD and his numbers are blah.

The Broncos are the perfect team to fix our issues. The next 5 games are very winnable. 8-3 is achievable going into Baltimore and that needs to be the case. (vs Den, vs Pit, @Cin, @NE, vs Det)

Agreed that 8-3 is achievable but Baker’s partial labrum tear is probably a full tear at this point. That injury is just as much (if not more so) mental as it is physical for him.

He’s already a limited quarterback. He overthinks and far too often doesn’t even see the wide open receiver who could walk into the end zone. Factor in his shoulder injury, injuries elsewhere on this team, and a listless defense… my fear is this season could get away from us in a hurry.

They need to be healthy to have a chance because even Baker at 100% is nowhere near good enough to carry a team through a tough stretch.

 

[Triplethreat]

The fact remains that even though everyone here thinks Mayfield isn’t good, he’s a top 12 QB in football.

Remember…. There are only fucking 12 of those. We can go down the list of QBs that this board would take as a replacement to Mayfield and we all know it’s short as all fuck.

Week to week you guys pay more attention yo the elite QBs than anyone else. There are only like 6-7 of those, and not easy to find.

Like or not, Mayfield is going to have to be the guy going forward…. And he can still get better, and yea, we can win with him.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Agreed that 8-3 is achievable but Baker’s partial labrum tear is probably a full tear at this point. That injury is just as much (if not more so) mental as it is physical for him.

He’s already a limited quarterback. He overthinks and far too often doesn’t even see the wide open receiver who could walk into the end zone. Factor in his shoulder injury, injures elsewhere on this team, and a listless defense… my fear is this season could get away from us in a hurry.

That is for sure the biggest thing working against us. The shoulder.

The thing that absolutely sucks about shoulders is their separation reoccurrence risk just never really gets better until it is 100%. Easily the most annoying injury I have ever personally dealt with. It is always in the back of your mind.

Any sort of above average stress pops it out or at minimum makes it feel like shit / weak for several minutes. Then you get to PT every day, practice, rest / recover and continually cross your fingers. It is an extremely challenging injury from a mental perspective, as it is something you constantly deal with.

For someone who struggles with pressure avoidance already, I feel like a shoulder is one of the worst injuries for that. It is so hard to protect in any sport, even more so in football. Even after a few weeks of it already (likely) feeling better, you could see him trying to turn away from any contact on it and that was prior to popping it out again. Now he’s going to have to play on short rest. Not great.

 

[bs80]

Baker has not been consistently good enough this season, I think anyone reasonable would agree with that. But after the past couple games, can anyone really say with a straight face that this is a fucking championship roster 2 through 53 and that Baker is the only thing holding this roster back from winning a ring? Both our QB and our #2 through #53 need to improve. Jesus fucking Christ I'm fucking depressed

 

[Binkster]

Baker has not been consistently good enough this season, I think anyone reasonable would agree with that. But after the past couple games, can anyone really say with a straight face that this is a fucking championship roster 2 through 53 and that Baker is the only thing holding this roster back from winning a ring? Both our QB and our #2 through #53 need to improve. Jesus fucking Christ I'm fucking depressed

Talent-wise? Yes, I still believe that. But no, he’s not the only thing holding us back.

Injuries, Joe Woods, and Baker’s shortcomings are all playing a hand in this.

 

[2 For The Brew]

Clearly a large number of posters don't think Chubb, Conklin, Wills and Landry are significant contributors to our offense. The complete meltdown over today's loss to an undefeated team is just ridiculous. Yes, it was a crappy game, next game is Thursday, hopefully we'll get some of those guys back.

 

[I'mWithDan]

The fact remains that even though everyone here thinks Mayfield isn’t good, he’s a top 12 QB in football.

Remember…. There are only fucking 12 of those. We can go down the list of QBs that this board would take as a replacement to Mayfield and we all know it’s short as all fuck.

Week to week you guys pay more attention yo the elite QBs than anyone else. There are only like 6-7 of those, and not easy to find.

Like or not, Mayfield is going to have to be the guy going forward…. And he can still get better, and yea, we can win with him.

I wondered why you said top 12, it was a weird number......but then I looked at the list.

Stafford, Mahomes, Murray, Brady, Rodgers, Allen, Wilson, Herbert, Lamar, Dak, Watson.

That is a stone cold lock top 11. There is literally zero debate Baker is better than any of those guys. So you needed to say 12th for it to sound sort of ok. Cause if you said top 10, we all would have laughed you out of the room at this point.

But at 12, Carr is unequivocally a better QB to me.

2019 EPA - #11
2020 EPA - #10
2021 EPA - #7

The only QB's in the NFL tracking to be in the top 12 of EPA, since you like this number, the last three seasons in a row:

Mahomes, Murray and Carr

Even in Baker's best career year, he still trailed guys like Carr and Ryan by a pretty good margin in EPA.

I think you vastly overrate his standing in the league. Is he bad? No. Is he replaceable. Absolutely.

 

[Los216]

Baker has not been consistently good enough this season, I think anyone reasonable would agree with that. But after the past couple games, can anyone really say with a straight face that this is a fucking championship roster 2 through 53 and that Baker is the only thing holding this roster back from winning a ring? Both our QB and our #2 through #53 need to improve. Jesus fucking Christ I'm fucking depressed

Are The Green Bay Packers better than The Browns 2-53?

 

[Los216]

 

[TyGuy]

I wondered why you said top 12, it was a weird number......but then I looked at the list.

Stafford, Mahomes, Murray, Brady, Rodgers, Allen, Wilson, Herbert, Lamar, Dak, Watson.

That is a stone cold lock top 11. There is literally zero debate Baker is better than any of those guys. So you needed to say 12th for it to sound sort of ok. Cause if you said top 10, we all would have laughed you out of the room at this point.

But at 12, Carr is unequivocally a better QB to me.

2019 EPA - #11
2020 EPA - #10
2021 EPA - #7

The only QB's in the NFL tracking to be in the top 12 of EPA, since you like this number, the last three seasons in a row:

Mahomes, Murray and Carr

Even in Baker's best career year, he still trailed guys like Carr and Ryan by a pretty good margin in EPA.

I think you vastly overrate his standing in the league. Is he bad? No. Is he replaceable. Absolutely.

I think Carr is better too, he has a poor reputation around here though so a lot of people would probably disagree. I think he’s underrated though. Matt Ryan and Cousins are also probably better. I’d say he is probably around number 15 in my opinion.

 

[Los216]

I was at the game today and I was sitting by a guy who came all the way from New Mexico. He’s a lifelong Browns fan and a surgeon. He said Baker is going to overcompensate for that shoulder for the remainder of the season.

So for a guy who already looks uncomfortable under pressure and is playing behind a beat up O-Line, how can anyone who was at that game today honestly believe that Baker is going to physically hold up this season? He takes too many unnecessary hits. He is not athletic enough to scramble and avoid contact.

Yes it’s cool to see him gutting it out but guys, this man is hurt. He is putting himself at extreme risk right now. He’s going to be limited for the remainder of this season. So unless you think Case Keenum is going to pickup and takeoff with this offense it’s probably a good idea to really start thinking about the available options at QB for this season.

I’m not saying replace Baker right now because quite frankly I think it’s only a matter of time with that shoulder that he is shelved for a decent stint.

 

[I'mWithDan]

I think Carr is better too, he has a poor reputation around here though so a lot of people would probably disagree. I think he’s underrated though. Matt Ryan and Cousins are also probably better. I’d say he is probably around number 15 in my opinion.

People can hate on him all they want but Derek Carr’s EPA relative to his supporting roster talent is pretty impressive to me. PFF ranked the Raiders as I think the #26th best roster heading in to the season….and he’s still just chugging along producing.

The top 12 argument is more semantics to me, as the only reason you’d make an argument for Baker is he’s the youngest of them. So theoretically, he could get better and play longer, even though not much of what we have seen indicates that to be very realistic.