Baker Mayfield: Fire The Cannons

[CBBI]

Who?

In my opinion - Rodgers, Wilson, Watson, Carr, Cousins and Garoppolo are all guys the Browns would be willing to acquire to replace Mayfield if the price was right both incoming and outgoing.

And if the Dolphins or Eagles acquire one of the first three names - you could potentially add Tua and Hurts to the list as well. I’m the least confident about Tua, but the financial savings would be significant.

 

[CBBI]

As I said, it's a matter of degree.

Since the two SB wins from the 00s, there have been plenty of .500 or very close seasons (you know, that Baker gets lambasted for,) and fewer playoff wins in the past 5 years.

Winning two Super Bowls with one franchise gives you a lifetime pass no questions asked. C’mon now.

 

[Triplethreat]

In my opinion - Rodgers, Wilson, Watson, Carr, Cousins and Garoppolo are all guys the Browns would be willing to acquire to replace Mayfield if the price was right both incoming and outgoing.

And if the Dolphins or Eagles acquire one of the first three names - you could potentially add Tua and Hurts to the list as well. I’m the least confident about Tua, but the financial savings would be significant.

Dude, Cousins? Garoppolo?

Both are considerably worse players than Mayfield when he is healthy.

 

[CBBI]

Dude, Cousins? Garoppolo?

Both are considerably worse players than Mayfield when he is healthy.

 

[Steve_424]

In my opinion - Rodgers, Wilson, Watson, Carr, Cousins and Garoppolo are all guys the Browns would be willing to acquire to replace Mayfield if the price was right both incoming and outgoing.

And if the Dolphins or Eagles acquire one of the first three names - you could potentially add Tua and Hurts to the list as well. I’m the least confident about Tua, but the financial savings would be significant.

Rodgers, Watson, and Wilson aren't coming here. With Carr finally getting Vegas to the Playoffs, I doubt they move him.

That leaves Cousins and Garoppolo.

ESPN on Cousins:

If Minnesota were to trade Cousins, the Vikings would incur a $10 million dead-cap charge, and the team acquiring the quarterback would be on the hook for his $35 million fully guaranteed base salary. Unless Cousins would agree to renegotiate his deal prior to the trade to lessen the cap hit, or the Vikings could work out an agreement with the acquiring team to absorb some of the base salary guarantee, it would make a trade extremely unlikely.

They aren't paying Cousins $35 M.

They also aren't going to give SF a 2nd or 3rd rounder so they can pay Garoppolo $27 M.

 

[Triplethreat]

Have you watched either of those two play ALL season?

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

Have you watched either of those two play ALL season?

I'll listen to you on Jimmy G. I think the dude is absolutely terrible.

Kirk Cousins has been, statistically, a top 10 QB the past two seasons. He's been, unequivocally, much better than Baker.

 

[Surge]

I'll listen to you on Jimmy G. I think the dude is absolutely terrible.

Kirk Cousins has been, statistically, a top 10 QB the past two seasons. He's been, unequivocally, much better than Baker.

Few people in the league should have a better idea of Cousins' value than Stefanski.

So whether we end up with him or not, we'll have an answer.

 

[CBBI]

Rodgers, Watson, and Wilson aren't coming here. With Carr finally getting Vegas to the Playoffs, I doubt they move him.

That leaves Cousins and Garoppolo.

ESPN on Cousins:

If Minnesota were to trade Cousins, the Vikings would incur a $10 million dead-cap charge, and the team acquiring the quarterback would be on the hook for his $35 million fully guaranteed base salary. Unless Cousins would agree to renegotiate his deal prior to the trade to lessen the cap hit, or the Vikings could work out an agreement with the acquiring team to absorb some of the base salary guarantee, it would make a trade extremely unlikely.

They aren't paying Cousins $35 M.

They also aren't going to give SF a 2nd or 3rd rounder so they can pay Garoppolo $27 M.

All I can say is we’ll see.

You asked me which QBs I thought the Browns would be willing to replace Baker with and I gave you the names.

 

[CBBI]

Have you watched either of those two play ALL season?

They’ve both been a lot better than Baker Mayfield this year that’s for sure.

So what it boils down to are three things…

1. Was 2020 Baker’s apex?

2. If so, can the Browns replicate all the advantages they had in 2020 - specifically the absolutely dominant offensive line?

3. If the Browns can replicate the advantages they had in 2020, could a different QB who has never had those advantages play ever better than Baker did?

 

[6.19.2016]

Were you trying to say you think he already hit his "apex" at age 25 and is going to have a, generally, irreversible decline going forward?

If so not sure what to tell you. Even dual-threat players have plenty of room to improve in pure passing into at least their late 20s (Wilson, and even Cam didn't really start to hit the wall until close to 30.)

 

[CBBI]

Were you trying to say you think he already hit his "apex" at age 25 and is going to have a, generally, irreversible decline going forward?

If so not sure what to tell you. Even dual-threat players have plenty of room to improve in pure passing into at least their late 20s (Wilson, and even Cam didn't really start to hit the wall until close to 30.)

Not necessarily a decline, no.

But I think it’s clear that Baker benefited significantly from a lot things in 2020 that I don’t know that the Browns will ever be able to replicate all at the same time again.

-The offensive line was once in a decade level dominant
-The schedule was really soft
-The NFL had never seen Stefanski’s non-Zimmer adjusted version of his offense and hadn’t any had opportunity to adjust to his tendencies
-The running game was near the top of the league

And even with all those positive things which existed all year, Baker was nothing more than a solidly above average quarterback.

The best season the Browns have had at the position in a very long time? Absolutely! But that doesn’t mean it was good enough to win the Super Bowl. He was still the… 6th? 7th? best QB in his own conference?

I just don’t expect Baker’s weaknesses to improve all that much. So it’s a matter of building a situation around him that can mask those weaknesses like the Browns had in 2020. And if that’s the case, I’d rather go in a different direction with a QB who either has fewer weaknesses or could take more advantage of optimal surroundings.

 

[Jscc]

I'll listen to you on Jimmy G. I think the dude is absolutely terrible.

Kirk Cousins has been, statistically, a top 10 QB the past two seasons. He's been, unequivocally, much better than Baker.

I think Jimmy G is garbage too, and while Cousins is no Rodgers or even Russell, in 6 out of his 7 seasons as full time starter he put up 4000+ yards and 25+ TDs with two pro bowl selections. He's also not short like Baker. He's a solid 6'3. I'm not saying that's what the Browns should do, but they could do much worse than Cousins.

 

[AZ_]

Dude, Cousins? Garoppolo?

Both are considerably worse players than Mayfield when he is healthy.

Have you watched either of those two play ALL season?

Yes, and I'm sure you've watched EVERY game play-for-play.

But there is just no statistical case that really backs this up, and it made me say "what the fuck" out loud as I scrolled passed it this AM.

There is no actual "non statistical" case either, for that matter.

Brutal take.

 

[Smooth]

With the season over, I think we can all pretty much agree that Baker sucked..

Going into next year the biggest question that need answered will be—

Do Browns think 2021 Baker or 2020 Baker is closer to the norm?

If 2020, then do the Browns believe his play and relationship is salvageable?

If 2021, is there a suitable upgrade in play?

The thing that complicates the latter is potential cap impact trading away Baker (clears the cap but who gives up value for him) and the cap impact of taking on an incoming QB (say Kirk Cousins) on top of the draft capital exchanging hands to upgrade the QB spot…

Berry is on record saying QB is the most important spot on the roster and they must do everything they can to support it.. If that’s the case, it may be losing draft capital and cap space to upgrade from Baker… Which is why I think the comments that have come out about Baker exists because it’s a muddy picture as far as what’s out there and what exactly it would take to make an upgrade..