Browns hire Andrew Berry

[Jack Brickman]

Why do you "blindly" (word of the day) assume that his "good advice was ignored"? The logic doesn't take me there. Is it the Wickersham piece about McDermott? The fact that he's the last man standing? Every assumption making him look good requires a leap of faith somewhere. I'm not taking that leap this time.

Well, we heard that he liked McDermott over Hue Jackson. We heard he liked Stefanski and Flores over Kitchens.

It seems that, in those two instances at least, he was providing what was probably good advice, and certainly better advice than the choices the Haslams eventually went with.

 

[Soda]

John Lynch, who mind you had literally zero front office experience at the time, was hired by the 49ers after the Senior Bowl ended in 2017 and he just won NFL Executive of the Year, ya know?

There's just more than one way to skin the front office cat my dude.

Very true, but the exception doesn't prove that it's good to not have your highest-level talent evaluators at the event. I do not believe omission of those players at the event is optimal. Does it mean you're automatically doomed? No, but to me it leans closer to that then it leans toward "this is fine".

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

If he's standing behind the scenes able to criticize everything people do without having to answer for his own influence, or lack thereof, I find that to be problematic. That's what consultants do, not CSOs. Coming in with the "told ya so" after the fact doesn't resonate with me anymore.

Would his stint with the Dodgers be substantive? Or is his job with the Mets the only thing we're supposed to look at?

Do you know that Paul DePodesta is chiding in with "told ya so" after the fact?

If you do, mind providing your source?

 

[Soda]

Well, we heard that he liked McDermott over Hue Jackson. We heard he liked Stefanski and Flores over Kitchens.

It seems that, in those two instances at least, he was providing what was probably good advice, and certainly better advice than the choices the Haslams eventually went with.

Those things we heard don't resonate with me like they do you. That's fine, but you take a lot of faith in what you're hearing being true. His preference with Stefanski was out there in a timely fashion, so I buy it. The jury is still out on Stefanski, though, so we don't know that it was "good advice". After all, Stefanski is still a guy only the Browns interviewed to be HC. The rest of the stuff (McDermott & Flores) came after people knew the choices made were wrong & Flores/McDermott were right. That's too armchair for me to put faith in.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Those things we heard don't resonate with me like they do you. That's fine, but you take a lot of faith in what you're hearing being true. His preference with Stefanski was out there in a timely fashion, so I buy it. The jury is still out on Stefanski, though, so we don't know that it was "good advice". After all, Stefanski is still a guy only the Browns interviewed to be HC. The rest of the stuff (McDermott & Flores) came after people knew the choices made were wrong & Flores/McDermott were right. That's too armchair for me to put faith in.

Personally, I don't care at all about his coaching recommendations. Ability to judge men is a nice bonus, but it really doesn't have anything to do with his job.

If you want to throw those arguments out as irrelevant to his ability to provide our GM with valuable information, I'll accept that.

 

[Soda]

Do you know that Paul DePodesta is chiding in with "told ya so" after the fact?

If you do, mind providing your source?

The article of him preferring McDermott was "told ya so" as it was penned after Hue Jackson was fired. Him being the only guy not hung after the dismal run he's been employed through tells me that he's had carte blanche to critique everyone else without fear of his own job security. You can scrutinize that opinion; it's not "rock solid", but it's my belief.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

I sure said a lot by only making like a 20 word post



Man, I don't really care. NFL teams use analytics and traditional scouting, including the best in the NFL. Paul DePodesta said the Browns will use both. Outright refusal to use either is not going to happen again as it did with Dorsey.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

The article of him preferring McDermott was "told ya so" as it was penned after Hue Jackson was fired. Him being the only guy not hung after the dismal run he's been employed through tells me that he's had carte blanche to critique everyone else without fear of his own job security. You can scrutinize that opinion; it's not "rock solid", but it's my belief.

So, a journalist wrote an article that stated that in 2016, Paul DePodesta was one of four people in the room who preferred McDermott over Hue Jackson.

How is this Paul DePodesta saying "told ya so" after the fact?

Like, if he's running his mouth disparaging others in the facility, sure that's obviously shitty. But, we again have absolutely zero information that backs up the picture you're trying to paint.

 

[Soda]

So, a journalist wrote an article that stated that in 2016, Paul DePodesta was one of four people in the room who preferred McDermott over Hue Jackson.

How is this Paul DePodesta saying "told ya so" after the fact?

Like, if he's running his mouth disparaging others in the facility, sure that's obviously shitty. But, we again have absolutely zero information that backs up the picture you're trying to paint.

I really don't want to belabor the point, but I don't like to not respond (if you couldn't already tell).

If he felt the need to distance himself from the Hue decision publicly, wouldn't that lend credence to him feeling the need to do the same as it pertains to his standing in his org.? You don't have to agree with that assessment, but I wanted to shed light on where I'm at with it.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I really don't want to belabor the point, but I don't like to not respond (if you couldn't already tell).

If he felt the need to distance himself from the Hue decision publicly, wouldn't that lend credence to him feeling the need to do the same as it pertains to his standing in his org.? You don't have to agree with that assessment, but I wanted to shed light on where I'm at with it.

Are you stating you believe that Paul DePodesta leaked this story to the media in order to say "Told ya so"?

Because, to me, the article doesn't read that way: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...rowns-front-office-where-hope-history-collide

 

[Ohio]

He's a good (arguably very good) old school, trust your gut, eye test scout. He's not particularly good at any other part of being a GM.

Can't disagree, he had his faults, for sure. It's just...we've been devoid of talent for so long, it was nice to finally have somebody that is at least above average at evaluating talent. I really wish there was a way we could have kept him and simply hired a new coach.

While I have my doubts about this regime, I actually like the major moves the Browns have made since cleaning house. Stefanski was my clear cut #2 choice after McCarthy. Berry was at the top of my list, though once Paton became possible I would have preferred that. And I do like DePo and what he brings to the table. But just because I like these guys does not mean it is going to work, there is so much unknown with this group it's borderline troubling. This could very easily blow up in our faces, and if 2020 is close to as bad as 2019, we are fucked on multiple levels.

 

[Phills14]

Anyone else get the feeling that if we hired a Chief Strategy Officer in 2016 that wasn't named Paul DePodesta or had any baseball experience the last 5 pages wouldn't have happened?

 

[Randolphkeys]

Anyone else get the feeling that if we hired a Chief Strategy Officer in 2016 that wasn't named Paul DePodesta or had any baseball experience the last 5 pages wouldn't have happened?

If the team didn't consistently suck since 2016, I assure you the last five pages wouldn't have happened. Fans get to have an opinion about a guy who has been around for four years of sucking.

 

[GonzoRatso88]

I think it was a combination of a lot of factors that sealed Dorsey's fate.

Let's assume all of the rumors that have leaked out over the last month or so are true...

1. Dorsey hired Kitchens after what amounted to a sham coaching search and did so against the recommendation of DePodesta and Berry.

2. Dorsey had an openly antagonistic relationship with DePodesta and his team and ultimately refused to use the information that the analytics staff was attempting to provide for him.

3. Dorsey hired Kitchens because he wanted an inexperienced coach he could control after somewhat famously losing the power struggle to Andy Reid in Kansas City. This included filling out Kitchens' assistant staff for him and also being involved in determining playing time for various players.

4. Dorsey did not want to fire Kitchens.

5. Once Haslam fired Kitchens anyway, Dorsey still refused to have a harmonious relationship with DePodesta and once again preferred to bring on a coach he would be able to control.

John Dorsey was good at one specific element of being a general manager. He knows how to evaluate talent at a reasonably high level.

Everything else was basically awful.

Evaluating and acquiring coaching talent? Bad
Working in conjunction with other members of the front office? Bad
Factoring in character in player evaluations? Bad
Being skilled in player relations and contract negotiations? Bad

He's a good (arguably very good) old school, trust your gut, eye test scout. He's not particularly good at any other part of being a GM.

This is an excellent analysis. Dorsey has an eye for talent but if he is so good at being a GM (which includes more than identifying talent), why was he fired from KC and CLE? He drafted a lot of good players but does not communicate or collaborate well with others. He is good at finding talent but not building a team. He hired Freddie Kitchens as HC for all the wrong reasons. Would anyone trust him to hire another coach?

 

[ajz20]

If the team didn't consistently suck since 2016, I assure you the last five pages wouldn't have happened. Fans get to have an opinion about a guy who has been around for four years of sucking.

Bottom line is I think the Browns And Haslem need to prove they can stick with a plan and that Haslem and his family won’t interfere before we shower him with any praise. His record since he took over has been horrific and he is the one thing that has been constant over the last 8 to 9 years.