Browns hire Andrew Berry

[UDcleveland]

It's actually very far from that. I work in data, so I understand how they can be used optimally & how easily they can be used to a detriment or to enforce group think.

So if I’m following... you posed a question about how the Browns rank players from the strategy office, got someone’s opinion on the matter, then shit on said opinion, saying that you have a better understanding based on your job.

So why ask a question in the first place?

It’s all good if you’re not optimistic, or not feeling optimal or whatever, but we got it, like 6 pages ago.

 

[daddywags]

On DePo and McDermott, if the recent reports are just DePo telling lies through the media one person who would know that for sure is Jimmy Haslam. So to believe that it's just DePo running a false "I told you so" means to believe Haslam is in on the deceit and fine with it, which would be extremely odd.

On Dorsey's draft acumen, he hit on Mayfield (at 1 overall), Ward (at 4 overall) and Chubb (at 35 overall). What other draft picks are people really excited about?

 

[MoFlo]

Anyone else get the feeling that if we hired a Chief Strategy Officer in 2016 that wasn't named Paul DePodesta or had any baseball experience the last 5 pages wouldn't have happened?

Absolutely. It's two fold to me:

*If DePodesta was instead "John Brown" who has worked on the analytics side of the NFL for years (instead of having baseball experience), barely anyone would be batting an eyelash.

*We've been so bad for so long, fans latch on to anyone who brings an above average amount of talent in, no matter what or how many shortcomings he may have.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

So if I’m following... you posed a question about how the Browns rank players from the strategy office, got someone’s opinion on the matter, then shit on said opinion, saying that you have a better understanding based on your job.

So why ask a question in the first place?

It’s all good if you’re not optimistic, or not feeling optimal or whatever, but we got it, like 6 pages ago.

Nah, it wasn't like that. I insinuated that he didn't understand analytics (because he asked what the group could possibly provide). He clarified.

I'd ask why he raised the question in the first place, but I don't see that response as "shitting on" me. Just a good, in-depth, back-and-forth.

 

[Jordan]

Is it allowed to be excited about the front office going all-in on analytics and simultaneously concerned with the complete and total administrative shakeup?

Also, not to be too demanding, but is it cool if I could not give two shits about the senior bowl?

 

[UDcleveland]

Nah, it wasn't like that. I insinuated that he didn't understand analytics (because he asked what the group could possibly provide). He clarified.

I'd ask why he raised the question in the first place, but I don't see that response as "shitting on" me. Just a good, in-depth, back-and-forth.

Fair enough. I get a little irked when people state their opinions as facts (“it’s actually not like that,” etc.).

Anyway, back on topic, count me in jking’s camp - simultaneously excited and concerned. But with our talent, leaning optimistic.

 

[Soda]

So if I’m following... you posed a question about how the Browns rank players from the strategy office, got someone’s opinion on the matter, then shit on said opinion, saying that you have a better understanding based on your job.

So why ask a question in the first place?

It’s all good if you’re not optimistic, or not feeling optimal or whatever, but we got it, like 6 pages ago.

No, it’s not that I shit on the position. I rebuked the assertion that I don’t understand what data is used for. You apparently think I ought to let someone tell me that I don’t understand the subject matter as a retort to my opinion.. GTFOH

 

[Soda]

Absolutely. It's two fold to me:

*If DePodesta was instead "John Brown" who has worked on the analytics side of the NFL for years (instead of having baseball experience), barely anyone would be batting an eyelash.

*We've been so bad for so long, fans latch on to anyone who brings an above average amount of talent in, no matter what or how many shortcomings he may have.

This is the second time a mod has posited that the criticism of DePodesta is due to lack of critical thinking skills by fans/posters. That’s trash.

 

[CBBI]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but we start to get on a slippery slope when people on this board suggest that information that has been reported by reputable people in the media isn’t true.

If we’re going to play the “fake news” card towards reports (and not calling out anyone specific, because I literally just did it myself with Ruiter and his Van Pelt news), discussions become a lot more difficult to have.

 

[Phills14]

This is the second time a mod has posited that the criticism of DePodesta is due to lack of critical thinking skills by fans/posters. That’s trash.

Yea that's true. I agree with the poster that said your criticism is "blind pessimism"

Your take on the senior bowl seems unnecessarily negative. Wolfe and Highsmith attended the senior bowl yes. They took notes, those notes are the property of the Browns. Other Browns scouts attended the senior bowl. Our new offensive coordinator was a coach on one of the teams. Andrew Berry was a senior member of the Eagles front office, I don't know if he was at the Senior Bowl but I'm sure he was aware of reports from the Eagles. To imply we lost a scouting opportunity at the Senior Bowl is simply not true.

Blasting DePodesta because of "hindsight" or "being right 3 years ago after the fact" is a silly argument to me. At the time it was publicly reported DePodesta wanted McDermott over Jackson and Stefanski over Kitchens. That's not something that he's claiming NOW after the fact. It was reported at the time. He was 100% correct on the people we hired. He seems to be correct on McDermott. Time will tell on Stefanski.

Frankly, I don't think what the Browns are doing is really any different than many other NFL teams. The only thing different is we have a big name guy as the Chief Strategy Officer who came from a different sport. Other teams have a guy like that but he came from academia or the business world and they are behind the scenes, unknown to the common fan. If we had that guy instead of the "moneyball" guy I think the whole narrative about analytics driving any and all decisions over traditional football scouting/coaching would disappear.

Bottom line is this... I don't see anyone on this board saying for certain that the Browns are going to succeed because of DePodesta and his recommendations. Most are saying they like the alignment and can see the vision for the team. Will it work? Who the hell knows. That's the vast majority of poster's take. You on the other hand have convinced yourself this is doomed to fail like every other regime since 1999. Given what we've seen over the years, it's absolutely correct to be skeptical however; it seems like you are beyond skeptical. As I said, convinced this set up will fail. There is no chance or maybe a very small chance it works out.

I have been fooled by more than a few regimes before. I have been right from the start on others. This one to me, from a business person's perspective, seems to be assembled correctly. Having a cohesive team off the field is very important to putting a team on the field. We have picked an organizational strategy. We have assembled a management team that is aware of the strategy, embraces the strategy and is held accountable to the strategy. Now let's see if the strategy results in wins instead of losses.

 

[Soda]

Yea that's true. I agree with the poster that said your criticism is "blind pessimism"

Your take on the senior bowl seems unnecessarily negative. Wolfe and Highsmith attended the senior bowl yes. They took notes, those notes are the property of the Browns. Other Browns scouts attended the senior bowl. Our new offensive coordinator was a coach on one of the teams. Andrew Berry was a senior member of the Eagles front office, I don't know if he was at the Senior Bowl but I'm sure he was aware of reports from the Eagles. To imply we lost a scouting opportunity at the Senior Bowl is simply not true.

Blasting DePodesta because of "hindsight" or "being right 3 years ago after the fact" is a silly argument to me. At the time it was publicly reported DePodesta wanted McDermott over Jackson and Stefanski over Kitchens. That's not something that he's claiming NOW after the fact. It was reported at the time. He was 100% correct on the people we hired. He seems to be correct on McDermott. Time will tell on Stefanski.

Frankly, I don't think what the Browns are doing is really any different than many other NFL teams. The only thing different is we have a big name guy as the Chief Strategy Officer who came from a different sport. Other teams have a guy like that but he came from academia or the business world and they are behind the scenes, unknown to the common fan. If we had that guy instead of the "moneyball" guy I think the whole narrative about analytics driving any and all decisions over traditional football scouting/coaching would disappear.

Bottom line is this... I don't see anyone on this board saying for certain that the Browns are going to succeed because of DePodesta and his recommendations. Most are saying they like the alignment and can see the vision for the team. Will it work? Who the hell knows. That's the vast majority of poster's take. You on the other hand have convinced yourself this is doomed to fail like every other regime since 1999. Given what we've seen over the years, it's absolutely correct to be skeptical however; it seems like you are beyond skeptical. As I said, convinced this set up will fail. There is no chance or maybe a very small chance it works out.

I have been fooled by more than a few regimes before. I have been right from the start on others. This one to me, from a business person's perspective, seems to be assembled correctly. Having a cohesive team off the field is very important to putting a team on the field. We have picked an organizational strategy. We have assembled a management team that is aware of the strategy, embraces the strategy and is held accountable to the strategy. Now let's see if the strategy results in wins instead of losses.

While I disagree that my rationale is “blind”, for reasons I won’t re-hash over, I appreciate a direct retort over the passive aggressive swipe presented previously. We can disagree..

 

[Lee]

Is it allowed to be excited about the front office going all-in on analytics and simultaneously concerned with the complete and total administrative shakeup?

Also, not to be too demanding, but is it cool if I could not give two shits about the senior bowl?

Honestly allot of players have looked good in the senior bowl who were semi under the radar and gone on to big time NFL careers. Its not everything, but the senior bowl to me is a bit under rated while the combine is over rated.

 

[SixPACK]

Analytics tell me not to post because over the past 10 pages my mind is mashed po-tate-ooooes. But the football guy in me is telling me to trust my gut and post.

There you go, I posted but didn't get too far into it. Analytics.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

This is all fair, but I don't see DePo as a "consultant". He's CSO & needs to have some accountability. We haven't even heard of him shifting actors on his team after the organization failures. What accountability does he even have?

He doesn't seem to have much actual authority -- he makes recommendations. And he is accountable to Jimmy for the recommendations he makes.

Do you have any actual evidence that his recommendations to Jimmy have been a net negative, or are you just assuming --without having any actual evidence -- that the Browns have been following his recommendations, and that's why he should be fired?

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

This is the second time a mod has posited that the criticism of DePodesta is due to lack of critical thinking skills by fans/posters. That’s trash.

I think the problem is that you haven't explained your basis for assuming that DePodesta has done something worthy of being criticized. You don't know what his recommendations were, you don't know which of his recommendations were followed and which weren't.

How can you make a valid criticism of that guy without knowing any of that? I truly don't understand. He may very well deserve all the criticism you're giving him. But there's no way for us to know that.