BROWNS OFF-SEASON 2020

[Jack Brickman]

It isn't easy for lots of people to be outspoken right about now without losing their jobs, being harassed, etc.

That's the kind of job security you get when you're one of the ten best people in the world at what you do.

And there's a difference between being outspoken and getting fired for being an asshole to some store clerks who are just doing their jobs.

 

[Huber.]

Media going out of their way to dramatize a Black athlete as some sort of “diva?”

Well I’m shocked for sure...

I empathize with OBJ. Can’t be easy being an outspoken, Black sports figure right about now.

Issues of a Domestic Nature (READ WARNING ON PAGE 1 BEFORE POSTING)

Discuss domestic issues. Like gun control. From Moderator Jking948: Unlocking this thread for the purposes of talking about the BK stuff. A warning: Personal attacks of any nature may be met with a one week RCF ban. The EC’s definition will be very broad, so please, avoid trying for subtle...

realcavsfans.com

 

[AZ_]

EDIT: Not worth digging in on someone else's false equivalence.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

That's the kind of job security you get when you're one of the ten best people in the world at what you do.

Agreed -- but that's the exact opposite point to the one to which I was responded. World-class athletes generally get cut much more slack than do the rest of us.

And there's a difference between being outspoken and getting fired for being an asshole to some store clerks who are just doing their jobs.

Sure there is -- but plenty of people are getting hung out to dry not for being an asshole to store clerks, but simply for "being outspoken".

 

[AZ_]

Agreed -- but that's the exact opposite point to the one to which I was responded. World-class athletes generally get cut much more slack than do the rest of us.



Sure there is -- but plenty of people are getting hung out to dry not for being an asshole to store clerks, but simply for "being outspoken".

C'mon, this is a clear false equivalence and it belongs nowhere near this thread.

If you're going to dig in on everyone else for this stuff, take this deflection to "cancel culture" to the appropriate thread.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

C'mon, this is a clear false equivalence

There's nothing false about the equivalence. Athletes in general have much more latitude to piss off their employers and get away with it than do ordinary schmucks. So where's the false equivalence?

....and it belongs nowhere near this thread. If you're going to dig in on everyone else for this stuff, take this deflection to "cancel culture" to the appropriate thread.

First, I have no mod authority/powers outside the Tribe thread and don't set the rules there. Second, I only posted in response to your post that was clearly intended to make a point on a racial subject that didn't belong here. Except that I, unlike you, didn't mention race at all, which is a dicey topic even in the political threads.

 

[red.]

 

[AZ_]

There's nothing false about the equivalence. Athletes in general have much more latitude to piss off their employers and get away with it than do ordinary schmucks. So where's the false equivalence?

The context, tone and tenor of his comments, which are neither current nor controversial. The direction they're aimed, the good faith they're rooted in.

Comparing him to those who have faced consequences for incendiary political statements or social issues is a false
equivalence, and it has no place here. Nothing Beckham has said here is equal to the gaslighting or political controversy that you're comparing it to.


To say nothing of the fact that I mentioned Beckham's treatment by THE MEDIA, who here has drummed up an out of context controversy that plays upon the racial stereotypes of "diva" wide receivers, and creating their own "controversy" stories to cover.

This has nothing to do with facing accountability from employers or the public backlash ("losing their jobs, being harassed, etc. "), which is also a fallacy you're inserting here to drag the thread off topic.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

The context, tone and tenor of his comments, which are neither current nor controversial. The direction they're aimed, the good faith they're rooted in.

Comparing him to those who have faced consequences for incendiary political statements or social issues is a false
equivalence, and it has no place here.

So views that disagree with yours have "no place here"? You get to post your opinion that it "Can’t be easy being an outspoken, Black sports figure right about now", but any opinion that disagrees with your statement "has no place here." Well, that's one way to ensure that only your views get heard, isn't it?

What determines which views "have a place here" is not which side of an issue you are on, but the topic itself. So if my response -- which was expressly non-racial and non-political -- doesn't belong here, then your original effort to make this a racial/social justice issue belongs here even less.

 

[AZ_]

So views that disagree with yours have "no place here"?

Don't lob incendiary straw man arguments in bad faith, please.

You get to post your opinion that it "Can’t be easy being an outspoken, Black sports figure right about now", but any opinion that disagrees with your statement "has no place here." Well, that's one way to ensure that only your views get heard, isn't it?

But you didn't disagree with the statement, you changed the subject to people pissing off their employers, losing their jobs and being harassed.

None of which have anything to do with my opinion that the media makes it tougher on Black athletes to be outspoken without stereotyping them as "divas." In fact, it doesn't appear to be related to football at all.

What determines which views "have a place here" is not which side of an issue you are on, but the topic itself. So if my response -- which was expressly non-racial and non-political -- doesn't belong here, then your original effort to make this a racial/social justice issue belongs here even less.

My point was about Odell Beckham Jr., and the way he was unfairly treated here by a media member.

If you'd like to turn that discussion into a topic about other political issues and draw a false equivalence to others facing the backlash of that culture, there is a board for that.



Take the advice which you've dished out to others (often correctly) countless times, keep it focused on the Cleveland Sports.

 

[JMcCurry08]

Andrew Billings just opted out....tough blow to the DT depth

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Don't lob incendiary straw man arguments in bad faith, please.


But you didn't disagree with the statement....

Of course I did -- I was pointing out that tons of people, not just your example of black athletes, are afraid to be outspoken because of the reaction. I specifically said that athletes get cut more slack than do ordinary people. I didn't make it racial deliberately so as not to violate forum rules.

As to the media, I do not agree that athletes who are black get singled out for additional media criticism because of their race. LeBron, for example, gets shitloads of praise for being outspoken. In general, athletes who are outspoken quite naturally tend to be singled out because that's what being "outspoken" almost means by definition, but it has nothing to do with race. The guys who keep their mouths shut don't get the same treatment because there's nothing to treat differently.

If you say something perceived as positive when you're outspoken, you'll get good press. If you say something perceived as negative, phrased badly, or that just sounds dumb, you'll get negative press. Just as Drew Brees. But again...that's content-based rather than race-based.

 

[FrontPageNews]

Well there goes our only run defense addition

 

[DirtyDan]

I'm not a fan of sports media taking the opinions of specific athletes(OBJ, LBJ, Mayfield, etc.) and try to stir the pot for the sake of making more money.

They either manufacture people into these divisive characters or use controversial people to grab attention.

OBJ was just saying his opinion and it was taken out of context just for the headline. I really don't see anything different between him saying this or another other athlete saying it. Or any other American worker about their career if that organization hasn't taken the proper precautions. I don't think job security would even play into this since most people are afraid. Worried about how their place of work will help protect them and their family but also their way of life too.

 

[DirtyDan]

I really don't think this type of discussion should turn into a poltical argument. The cases of people being outspoken and getting reprimanded should be on a case by case basis.

None of us make the money these athletes do nor have the same job security. Is that morally right? Probably not. They can still express themselves however they want. Fans don't own them.