Cleveland Browns 2020 Regular Season Thread

[Lee]

I think Stefanski being better than a complete dumpster fire (Freddie) is likely. I don't think he has to be an amazing coach or anything, just decent. I think 'top 12' QB for Baker is an arbitrary line. We want him to be good, but there's so many variables and factors that come into play during the year that I can see him being league-average and us still winning more than 8. He was 2nd worst starting QB last year and we won 6 games with a dumpster coach and turnstile tackles. And I think it's likely Wills is able to play LT. I doubt he'd be worse than Greg Robinson. A coach's scheme alone can work wonders for getting the best out of players. As such, if Stefanski turns out to be damn good, maybe Baker can be the 17th best QB and we still win 10 games.

We start ignoring so many variables when we are making statements such as, "Our ceiling is X if Y or Z happens". I do agree that all of your points are certainly important.

Baker was 2nd worse had allot to do with coaching, I agree 12 is an arbitrary line, but 2nd worse is kind of arbitrary too because as you said it depends on allot of factors such as coaching, line paly, running game, receivers, etc.

As for Willis being better than Robinson is a legit question and Robinson was a higher pick than Willis and he sucked. I love the pick, but you never know until they get on the field.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Baker was 2nd worse had allot to do with coaching, I agree 12 is an arbitrary line, but 2nd worse is kind of arbitrary too because as you said it depends on allot of factors such as coaching, line paly, running game, receivers, etc.

As for Willis being better than Robinson is a legit question and Robinson was a higher pick than Willis and he sucked. I love the pick, but you never know until they get on the field.

I'll go out on a limb and say that, barring injury, it's absolutely impossible for Wills to be worse than Greg Robinson. Simply because of his agility, he's already better than GRob.

GRob was a lot of projection when he was selected. He had a great, massive frame, but had to work on a lot of things. He... well... didn't, and his only attribute was being big and strong, which didn't take him very far once he got to the NFL.

As a prospect, if Wills "fails" then he's looking to move to RT, or inside to guard, and still be a productive NFL player. GRob's failure scenario was him out of the league.

 

[Lee]

I'll go out on a limb and say that, barring injury, it's absolutely impossible for Wills to be worse than Greg Robinson. Simply because of his agility, he's already better than GRob.

GRob was a lot of projection when he was selected. He had a great, massive frame, but had to work on a lot of things. He... well... didn't, and his only attribute was being big and strong, which didn't take him very far once he got to the NFL.

As a prospect, if Wills "fails" then he's looking to move to RT, or inside to guard, and still be a productive NFL player. GRob's failure scenario was him out of the league.

You just never know, I thought Obi was going to be a stud and Drew Brees would be a Journey Man QB, its really hard to predict.

 

[Triplethreat]

We can’t have the most talented roster until Baker starts playing like a top 8 QB in the league at bare minimum. Until that happens, there’s no reason to discuss that, not even mentioning other roster issues.



IMO, these are the three main questions that need answered this year.

1. Is Stefanski a legitimate head coach?
2. Can Baker consistently play as a top 12 QB?
3. Is Wills able to play LT?

If the answer to even one of those questions is either no or inconclusive, I’d say our ceiling is at best 8-8.

That’s not even factoring in that we might currently have a bottom 5 LB core, but I’ll leave that for another time.

The whole point is that we have to assume Baker is going to be performing at that level or none of this matters anyways.

We will be blowing it up in all likelihood if he busts.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Baker was 2nd worse had allot to do with coaching, I agree 12 is an arbitrary line, but 2nd worse is kind of arbitrary too because as you said it depends on allot of factors such as coaching, line paly, running game, receivers, etc.

As for Willis being better than Robinson is a legit question and Robinson was a higher pick than Willis and he sucked. I love the pick, but you never know until they get on the field.

At Auburn, Robinson ran an offense that had very little to do with the pro style offense and it showed. He was a liability in the pros in the running game and he never fixed his bad habits in pass protection. Robinson was projected to have all the physical tools to be an offensive tackle, but never gained the technique that many believed are coachable.

Wills is coming from Alabama, where he ran pro style offense designed by Brian Daboll and Steve Sarkesian. His issue is switching from the right to the left, which is again a technique issue, but it's not like he never blocked in a pro style offense.

 

[Lee]

At Auburn, Robinson ran an offense that had very little to do with the pro style offense and it showed. He was a liability in the pros in the running game and he never fixed his bad habits in pass protection. Robinson was projected to have all the physical tools to be an offensive tackle, but never gained the technique that many believed are coachable.

Wills is coming from Alabama, where he ran pro style offense designed by Brian Daboll and Steve Sarkesian. His issue is switching from the right to the left, which is again a technique issue, but it's not like he never blocked in a pro style offense.

Why are we arguing? Man are we bored, lol

I am sure you agree its always a risk at some level even if going from a pro offense to pro offense. I love the pick, I think he is going to be a pro bowl level left tackle. But who knows until we see him at left tackle is all I am saying. But I agree with you on the concept.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Why are we arguing? Man are we bored, lol

I am sure you agree its always a risk at some level even if going from a pro offense to pro offense. I love the pick, I think he is going to be a pro bowl level left tackle. But who knows until we see him at left tackle is all I am saying. But I agree with you on the concept.

I don't really feel like we were arguing, I just wanted to build on what you said. Examining what went wrong with Greg Robinson is important for the Browns to examine since a lot is riding on Wills.

Greg Robinson had no business being picked that high by the Rams. They were desperate for a young left tackle for the same reason a lot of teams have been reaching for tackles. The pro game and college game looked nothing alike outside of maybe seven or eight college programs for a decade.

That's why I didn't want the Browns to get cute with trade downs. Who knows if there will be another draft with pro-ready tackles in the near future.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I don't really feel like we were arguing, I just wanted to build on what you said. Examining what went wrong with Greg Robinson is important for the Browns to examine since a lot is riding on Wills.

Greg Robinson had no business being picked that high by the Rams. They were desperate for a young left tackle for the same reason a lot of teams have been reaching for tackles. The pro game and college game looked nothing alike outside of maybe seven or eight college programs for a decade.

That's why I didn't want the Browns to get cute with trade downs. Who knows if there will be another draft with pro-ready tackles in the near future.

I'm happy we specifically got Wills--not just that we took one of the tackles.

If he starts at LT, I think Wirfs is going to get Brady killed this year.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I'm happy we specifically got Wills--not just that we took one of the tackles.

If he starts at LT, I think Wirfs is going to get Brady killed this year.

Wirfs does have a few issues, but it's coachable. He is coming from one of the programs who do teach pro style offensive line play, so there's a good base there. Wills is clearly the better fit for the Browns as long as he gets used to kick sliding to his left. I just thought Simmons was going to the Panthers, so Arizona would take Wills. We can all thank Coach Rhule for taking Derrick Brown!

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Wirfs does have a few issues, but it's coachable. He is coming from one of the programs who do teach pro style offensive line play, so there's a good base there. Wills is clearly the better fit for the Browns as long as he gets used to kick sliding to his left. I just thought Simmons was going to the Panthers, so Arizona would take Wills. We can all thank Coach Rhule for taking Derrick Brown!

I might be completely wrong, but to me, seeing his tape and knowing that it came after he worked with coaches at Iowa makes me think less of him--not more. If you can't figure it out with coaching from Iowa/Wisconsin/Ohio State/Alabama, then I'm not willing to bet that you're going to figure it out in the NFL. It may happen--it's just not something I would be willing to bet my career on.

I love Wirfs's athleticism, but I prefer the guys who are already polished football players (Thomas, Wills). I saw far too many blown assignments at Iowa for me to feel safe with Wirfs, as a rookie, protecting possibly the last moments of Brady's career.

I'm probably wrong because he fell so much further in the draft, but I would've taken Josh Jones at that pick for Tampa.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I'm probably wrong because he fell so much further in the draft, but I would've taken Josh Jones at that pick for Tampa.

We can agree Arizona had one heck of a draft nabbing Simmons and then watching Josh Jones fall to them in round three.

 

[Lee]

We can agree Arizona had one heck of a draft nabbing Simmons and then watching Josh Jones fall to them in round three.

I tried telling my friends that are Cardinals fans this, but it really went over their heads who either player is, lol I think they had a good draft based upon their first 2 picks and the fact they traded their 2nd round pick and David Johnson for Hopkins, i would say they knocked it out of the park.

Still cant fathom that trade, Hopkins getting to further learn from Fitz? To me Hopkins is the best in the game, and Fitz is a top 5 (maybe 10) all time receiver. Through in Kirk and the fact they want to throw it 60 times a game and i will be watching, lol

 

[Randolphkeys]

I tried telling my friends that are Cardinals fans this, but it really went over their heads who either player is, lol I think they had a good draft based upon their first 2 picks and the fact they traded their 2nd round pick and David Johnson for Hopkins, i would say they knocked it out of the park.

Still cant fathom that trade, Hopkins getting to further learn from Fitz? To me Hopkins is the best in the game, and Fitz is a top 5 (maybe 10) all time receiver. Through in Kirk and the fact they want to throw it 60 times a game and i will be watching, lol

A lot of NFL fans don't go much further on individual players than fantasy football. So when a team takes a safety/linebacker hybrid and a tackle, that doesn't move their needle. Once they are watching Cardinals games and they see the Cards can finally protect Murray, then the video game numbers at QB come with it.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I tried telling my friends that are Cardinals fans this, but it really went over their heads who either player is, lol I think they had a good draft based upon their first 2 picks and the fact they traded their 2nd round pick and David Johnson for Hopkins, i would say they knocked it out of the park.

Still cant fathom that trade, Hopkins getting to further learn from Fitz? To me Hopkins is the best in the game, and Fitz is a top 5 (maybe 10) all time receiver. Through in Kirk and the fact they want to throw it 60 times a game and i will be watching, lol

Rice, Moss, Megatron, TO are pretty solidly my top 4. You can argue for a lot of people to be the last in that group of "top 5" including older guys like Hutson, Alworth, Largent, or newer guys like Irvin, Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, Marvin Harrison, Hines Ward, Fitz... or even go real new and say Julio, OBJ, Nuk or Tyreek.

It's hard to rank. I'd probably give the nod to an "older" guy to fill out the top 5 all-time, but I have no problem with arguing for Fitz.

 

[Lee]

Rice, Moss, Megatron, TO are pretty solidly my top 4. You can argue for a lot of people to be the last in that group of "top 5" including older guys like Hutson, Alworth, Largent, or newer guys like Irvin, Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, Marvin Harrison, Hines Ward, Fitz... or even go real new and say Julio, OBJ, Nuk or Tyreek.

It's hard to rank. I'd probably give the nod to an "older" guy to fill out the top 5 all-time, but I have no problem with arguing for Fitz.

He is right there around 5. The fact he is an excellent blocker and almost never drops the ball with his production for his career does the 5 for me, but in the end we all know the receiver position in the NFL is Jerry Rice and then a bunch of other guys, lol