Collin Sexton | The Young Bull

[Wham with the Right Hand]

It's been said a few times lately that we got nothing for Kyrie or all we got was Sexton. Going for the glass is half full approach here.

1st pick Sexton Zizic and Mia 2nd pick from Bos

Our 1st Isaiah plus filler for Nance and Clarkson

Crowder plus fillers for Hill and Hood

Hill for Delly Henson 1st and 2nd

Hood for two 2nds

Clarkson for two 2nds and Exum

Henson filler 2nd for Drummond

Total going out
Kyrie
1st
2nd
Fillers with next to no value.

Total in coming
Sexton
Nance
Drummond
Zizic
One 1st
Six 2nds (how many of these picks ended up being Kevin Porter?)

We all know what Bos got for Kyrie. That could of been us. We got to experiment and whether it works out or not we still have value. Altman has been seriously busy.

Here's a good column from last May that updates the Irving trade.

Dan Gilbert said the Cavs ‘killed it’ in the Kyrie Irving trade, and he’s right

Follow the trail of transactions, and Cleveland has recouped quite a lot for dealing its disgruntled star.

www.sbnation.com

After going through each trade in detail they sum it up like this:

Koby Altman took a disgruntled Kyrie Irving, who was on track to leave Cleveland for nothing in return on July 1 of this year, and dealt him to Boston for players and assets that have become:

Ante Zizic
Collin Sexton
Marquese Chriss (free agent)
John Henson
Matthew Dellavedova
Brandon Knight
Jordan Clarkson
Larry Nance Jr.
draft rights to Arturas Gudaitis
Houston’s 2019 first-round pick
Utah’s 2020 second-round pick
Milwaukee’s 2021 first-round pick
Portland’s 2021 second-round pick
Portland’s 2023 second-round pick
Utah’s 2024 second-round pick
Bags on bags of cap space in the summer of 2021 — which could become either one or multiple max free agents (unlikely), or be exchanged for unfavorable contracts attached with attractive draft assets/young players (more likely).

Since May there have been more moves so let's update it. I'm going to take out Chriss since he wasn't significant and the rights to Gudaitis, whoever he is.

We traded Henson, Knight and a future 2nd rounder (not one of those listed) to Detroit for Andre Drummond. We traded Clarkson for Exum and two future second round picks. The two Portland second round picks were traded along with two other second round picks for Kevin Porter, JR. So the updated haul for Irving consists of:

Ante Zizic
Collin Sexton
Matthew Dellavedova
Larry Nance Jr.
Andre Drummond
Dante Exum
Kevin Porter Jr
Houston’s 2019 first-round pick (Dylan Windler)
Utah’s 2020 second-round pick
Milwaukee’s 2021 first-round pick
Utah’s 2024 second-round pick
Bags on bags of cap space in the summer of 2021

We had to throw in a couple more 2nd round picks for Porter and two more for Drummond, but basically we traded Kyrie for Sexton, Nance, Drummond, Porter, Exum, Delly, Zizic and Windler, plus we still have Milwaukee's 2021 first round pick although that will probably be a low one. Thoughout all these transactions there were multiple 2nd round picks we traded and others we received but overall it looks like it's a wash for those.

I don't agree with the "bags on bags of cap space in the summer of 2021". The column stated that Kyrie was "disgruntled" and "on track to leave...on July 1 (of 2019)", so even if we had not traded him we would be getting that cap space.

I think Delly, Zizic, and Exum have had a minimal impact since coming here and I don't think they will be part of the future in Cleveland, so I see it basically as Kyrie for Sexton, Nance, Porter, Windler, 1.3 years of Drummond, and a late 1st round pick next year.

Yeah, Altman killed it, although he had to make about five more trades AFTER the Kyrie deal to get to where we are now.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Just to add on, I found a 2012 column in Fear the Sword that takes the Kyrie trade all the way back to it's roots in 2006.

"Cavaliers signed David Wesley as a free agent in 2006. Wesley then got traded to the Hornets for Cedric Simmons. Simmons then got traded to the Bulls in exchange for Joe Smith. Smith got paired up with free agent signing Damon Jones and shipped off to Milwaukee in exchange for Mo Williams. Mo Williams makes the trip out to Hollywood and the Clippers send the first overall pick in the NBA draft, future ROY winner, and owner of the 20th best PER in the NBA right now......Kyrie Irving."

The Cavs also included Jamario Moon, who they signed in free agency, in that deal for the Irving pick. So basically over a ten-year period the Cavs turned three free agents (David Wesley, Damon Jones, and Jamario Moon) into the Irving pick which has been turned into Sexton, Nance, Porter, Windler, Drummond and a late first round pick next year.

 

[BankShot]

Just to add on, I found a 2012 column in Fear the Sword that takes the Kyrie trade all the way back to it's roots in 2006.

"Cavaliers signed David Wesley as a free agent in 2006. Wesley then got traded to the Hornets for Cedric Simmons. Simmons then got traded to the Bulls in exchange for Joe Smith. Smith got paired up with free agent signing Damon Jones and shipped off to Milwaukee in exchange for Mo Williams. Mo Williams makes the trip out to Hollywood and the Clippers send the first overall pick in the NBA draft, future ROY winner, and owner of the 20th best PER in the NBA right now......Kyrie Irving."

The Cavs also included Jamario Moon, who they signed in free agency, in that deal for the Irving pick. So basically over a ten-year period the Cavs turned three free agents (David Wesley, Damon Jones, and Jamario Moon) into the Irving pick which has been turned into Sexton, Nance, Porter, Windler, Drummond and a late first round pick next year.

Well actually, the roots go back even further, using a series of trades over time, you can trace Sexton/Kyrie all the way back to the drafting of Terrell Brandon in 1991. I posted the sequence once before, I'll see if I can find it.

 

[stowfan]

This is getting better than Ancestry dot com. lol

 

[BankShot]

This is getting better than Ancestry dot com. lol

Without listing every trade detail, here's the sequence:

We drafted Brandon, who was involved in the trade for Kemp, who was traded for multiple players including Chris Gatling, who was included in the trade for Ricky Davis, who was traded for multiple players including Tony Battie, who was traded for Drew Gooden, who was involved in the trade that brought Joe Smith, who was traded for Mo Williams, who was traded for B Davis and the pick that yielded Kyrie.

And since the Kyrie trade included multiple players that have already been traded for multiple players, this sequence will continue for a very long time.

 

[Rich]

Theres a legal term called proximate cause.

We're way outside of these trades being the proximate cause of where the Cavs are now.

Because hey, you can trace jt all the way back to the Cavs becoming an NBA franchise if you wish, or even further.

 

[BankShot]

Theres a legal term called proximate cause.

We're way outside of these trades being the proximate cause of where the Cavs are now.

Because hey, you can trace jt all the way back to the Cavs becoming an NBA franchise if you wish, or even further.

Not really, Brandon was our own natural pick in 1991, so it can't be traced any further back then that.

But either way, it's just a fun little sequence in Cavs history showing the connection between then and now.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

I think the subject at hand is how well did the Cavs do when they found themselves in a position where they had to trade Irving. It seems likely that Boston was not the only team that made an offer. There must have been others, but this is the one the Cavs chose. How did it work out?

Well, it was basically Kyrie for Sexton and some spare parts; Zizic, Crowder, and a broken down Isaiah Thomas. A good trade, mainly because Sexton will be here a long time whereas Kyrie would have played one more year, or more likely, elected to have surgery and not played another game for the Cavs.

You could really argue that they got Sexton and the others for nothing.

The real genius, IMO, was getting Nance and Clarkson for the corpse of Isaiah Thomas and a late first round pick that ended up being Moritz Wagner, who is still a backup.

And also getting Hood and Hill for Crowder, who didn't fit here. And then continuing to wheel and deal to add Porter, Windler, Drummond and a late 1st next year. Those series of moves were amazing.

 

[ansatsusha80]

Sexton put on a show yet nobody helped him tonight..

 

[daddywags]

If my math is correct, Sexton officially tipped up to 20.0 ppg tonight on 46% from the field and 38% from 3.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

The latest comment on Sexton from JBB:

"Sometimes it gets taken for granted. He’s available every night, available every day, works on his game every single day and competes every moment he’s on the floor. We have to appreciate that and show a ton of respect for that."

Since the night of the Clarkson trade Sexton is 7th in the East in scoring. And he's doing it efficienty and within the offense, not by high volume, low percentage shooting.

This month he will finish with the highest assist average of his career. He's averaging 4.1 assists per game in February, up from 2.9 in January and 2.2 in December.

He needs to contest 3-point shots without fouling or undercutting the shooter, though.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Something interesting that I came across. Collin is at 59 games played in his 2nd season. Kyrie, who we traded for the pick to acquire Sexton, played 59 total games his 2nd season. Here's how they compare, strictly from a scoring perspective in those 59 games played their 2nd season.

Kyrie: 22.5 PPG, 45.2/39.1/85.5 shooting splits, 50.3% eFG%, 55.3% TS%, 33.7 points per 100 possessions

Collin: 20.1 PPG, 46.1/38.2/84.9 shooting splits, 50.6% eFG%, 55.1% TS%, 30.2 points per 100 possessions

It's pretty crazy that, strictly looking at scoring, we replaced Kyrie with someone who looks an awful lot like...well, Kyrie. But you don't hear a peep about Sexton being as good of a young scorer for a guard as we heard about Kyrie when he was with us. Is it because Sexton isn't as flashy? Probably so. It shouldn't be because Sexton is putting up "empty stats", because those teams Kyrie was on were just as bad, if not worse, than the teams Sexton has been on to this point.

But the scoring volume on rarely seen high efficiency for such a young guard is there for Sexton, just like it was from Kyrie. It's just amazing to me that Sexton gets so much shit from NBA fans and Cleveland fans alike, when he is scoring like few guards in NBA history have ever scored at 21 or younger. Just strange.

 

[ansatsusha80]

Something interesting that I came across. Collin is at 59 games played in his 2nd season. Kyrie, who we traded for the pick to acquire Sexton, played 59 total games his 2nd season. Here's how they compare, strictly from a scoring perspective in those 59 games played their 2nd season.

Kyrie: 22.5 PPG, 45.2/39.1/85.5 shooting splits, 50.3% eFG%, 55.3% TS%, 33.7 points per 100 possessions

Collin: 20.1 PPG, 46.1/38.2/84.9 shooting splits, 50.6% eFG%, 55.1% TS%, 30.2 points per 100 possessions

It's pretty crazy that, strictly looking at scoring, we replaced Kyrie with someone who looks an awful lot like...well, Kyrie. But you don't hear a peep about Sexton being as good of a young scorer for a guard as we heard about Kyrie when he was with us. Is it because Sexton isn't as flashy? Probably so. It shouldn't be because Sexton is putting up "empty stats", because those teams Kyrie was on were just as bad, if not worse, than the teams Sexton has been on to this point.

But the scoring volume on rarely seen high efficiency for such a young guard is there for Sexton, just like it was from Kyrie. It's just amazing to me that Sexton gets so much shit from NBA fans and Cleveland fans alike, when he is scoring like few guards in NBA history have ever scored at 21 or younger. Just strange.

I find it laughable that a guard that's #3 scorer in his draft class can't get no love from the national and local media...Sexton came in the league with questions about his shot yet has a better three ball than Trae and Luka.

I understand, he's not flashy like Garland and Porter let alone players in his draft but he shouldn't get the amount of hate from Cavs fans.

Can you imagine Hawks and Mavericks fans killing their star players just because they made mistakes even though they're in there second year.Everyone in the media would call them idiots.

Rookies,sophomore and third year guys are allowed to make mistakes and learn from them.

You got people more worried about Sexton's mistakes than Mr Talc's fuckery. Kevin Love continues to disappear and not play defense but since he got a ring fans and the media won't hold him accountable...I've never seen a fanbase and coaching staff give player a pass for the lack of effort in my life like they do Love.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

I find it laughable that a guard that's #3 scorer in his draft class can't get no love from the national and local media...Sexton came in the league with questions about his shot yet has a better three ball than Trae and Luka.

I understand, he's not flashy like Garland and Porter let alone players in his draft but he shouldn't get the amount of hate from Cavs fans.

Can you imagine Hawks and Mavericks fans killing their star players just because they made mistakes even though they're in there second year.Everyone in the media would call them idiots.

Rookies,sophomore and third year guys are allowed to make mistakes and learn from them.

You got people more worried about Sexton's mistakes than Mr Talc's fuckery. Kevin Love continues to disappear and not play defense but since he got a ring fans and the media won't hold him accountable...I've never seen a fanbase and coaching staff give player a pass for the lack of effort in my life like they do Love.

Stop trying to discipline the fans.
Fans can do whatever they want. And no, he isn't a better 3pt shooter than Luka or Trae...volume, shot difficulty matters.

 

[Kizzle]

I also find the hate Sexton gets around here weird and i posted about it not in the Pelicans game thread but in the 76ers game thread.
I think ppl need to learn the difference between ball hog and a guy whose coaches have told him to look to score because he has the skill to do it.

Sexton is obviously our best offensive player and projects to be one his whole career. I don’t have any issue with him shooting a lot